A lot of hot AIR from Devialet?

[Damon]

Sorry I should maybe have been more clear here: 120/200/250/400/800 are all "older" models in this context. This is the so called "Expert" line. They all have the same issue with AIR.

I know this thread won't be as much fun without a dissenter, and I've got all afternoon open....(insert smiley to indicate good intentions). Actually, I'm not taking a contrary line. But I think would be correct to separate the expert line issues from the spark / dialogue / phantom issues. They may be related, but it we're going to be most effective in prompting Devialet if the focus of of the problem is distinct. Or not. 

I'm not running a dual mono set up, and I don't have many hi-res/ high nitrate files. But I did dig up the few 24/ 96 files I have, and I streamed them using AIR on ethernet and wifi. Router is wired to D120 with ethernet, and wireless from iMac to router, using iTunes and running Mavericks. I did not have any dropouts or noise issues at all. I've been doing this for a few days before posting. My D120 was manufactured in July 2014 according to the info on the display, so would be an updated 110.

If fact the only issue I've had has been with the airport express forgetting itself; the D120 has been flawless. Because I'm not using 24/192 or higher files, my trial may not be relevant to the the others, but I thought I would post it, if only as low-level reference. At this point, however, I don't think we can say that all Expert line products demonstrate this behaviour. 

[PhilP]

It is possible that if Devialet had kept the "AIR1" concept and waited for the introduction of ethernet connection to the amplifiers the noise problem would not have turned up. Difficult to say really.

You might be correct but I use "AIR 2" wi-fi and have never had any problems with white noise on 16 or 24 bit. This may be because I'm using OS X 10.6.8 and the problem seemingly only appeared (on OSX) with the introduction of Mavericks/Yosemite. It seems likely that it's a combination of versions of s/w and possibly h/w that causes the problem.

Perhaps it would be better to if Devialet went back to the "AIR 1" approach. They might upset some customers who use music players other than iTunes but at least their solution would be robust and hopefully bug-free.

[IanG-UK]

Sorry I should maybe have been more clear here: 120/200/250/400/800 are all "older" models in this context. This is the so called "Expert" line. They all have the same issue with AIR.

I know this thread won't be as much fun without a dissenter, and I've got all afternoon open....(insert smiley to indicate good intentions). Actually, I'm not taking a contrary line. But I think would be correct to separate the expert line issues from the spark / dialogue / phantom issues. They may be related, but it we're going to be most effective in prompting Devialet if the focus of of the problem is distinct. Or not. 

I'm not running a dual mono set up, and I don't have many hi-res/ high nitrate files. But I did dig up the few 24/ 96 files I have, and I streamed them using AIR on ethernet and wifi. Router is wired to D120 with ethernet, and wireless from iMac to router, using iTunes and running Mavericks. I did not have any dropouts or noise issues at all. I've been doing this for a few days before posting. My D120 was manufactured in July 2014 according to the info on the display, so would be an updated 110.

If fact the only issue I've had has been with the airport express forgetting itself; the D120 has been flawless. Because I'm not using 24/192 or higher files, my trial may not be relevant to the the others, but I thought I would post it, if only as low-level reference. At this point, however, I don't think we can say that all Expert line products demonstrate this behaviour. 

Hi Damon

Thanks for your post. I do want to present a fair view and I believe there are many people using AIR problem free. My set up has some similarities to yours and it's fair to say that if I run ethernet from router to Devialet using 16/44.1, that minimises white noise. And seemingly proportionately moreso if the Devialet has been powered down (not just sleeping) for a while. Indeed, I have left it running all night and found it still free of white noise in the morning. So much so that I have thought that I have discovered the cause.

But sooner or later it returns, ethernet or wifi, hi-res or 16/44.1. 

On your first point I'm definitely seeking to restrict the discussion to the Expert line. If we can devise a simple but pertinent survey, it will appear in a few days' time. 

Thank you.

[Womaz]

Has the problem always been there or has it just started since one of the AIR software upgrades? If it is just since an upgrade I would imagine it could be sorted quite quickly if they had enough desire to do it. I am new to the 200 so not aware of the history.

What IanG-UK describes as "AIR1" was a version that relied on iTunes for playback, but actually included it's own player. iTunes was only used to send the file path to the AIR player. This solution worked for CD resolution (16/44.1) material. At the time WiFi was the only network option. When AIR 2.0 ("AIR2") was introduced it was re-written as a virtual sound card to be compatible with more players, but Devialet then no longer had control of the player part running on the client machine. In "AIR1" the amplifier had proper control of file playback as the player was part of AIR. One problem here  was that iTunes for Windows was not working as well with AIR as the OS X version.
It is possible that if Devialet had kept the "AIR1" concept and waited for the introduction of ethernet connection to the amplifiers the noise problem would not have turned up. Difficult to say really.

I get it now. Thanks for the explanation. I guess for now I will have to compromise. Its annoying but I would rather have my 200 than not have it.

Its like having a beautiful woman.........it can be great but bloody high maintenance at times

[IanG-UK]

It is possible that if Devialet had kept the "AIR1" concept and waited for the introduction of ethernet connection to the amplifiers the noise problem would not have turned up. Difficult to say really.

You might be correct but I use "AIR 2" wi-fi and have never had any problems with white noise on 16 or 24 bit. This may be because I'm using OS X 10.6.8 and the problem seemingly only appeared (on OSX) with the introduction of Mavericks/Yosemite. It seems likely that it's a combination of versions of s/w and possibly h/w that causes the problem.

Perhaps it would be better to if Devialet went back to the "AIR 1" approach. They might upset some customers who use music players other than iTunes but at least their solution would be robust and hopefully bug-free.

I suggested that to Devialet. Or suggested they create a better version AIR3. But no response!

[Womaz]

Sorry I should maybe have been more clear here: 120/200/250/400/800 are all "older" models in this context. This is the so called "Expert" line. They all have the same issue with AIR.

I know this thread won't be as much fun without a dissenter, and I've got all afternoon open....(insert smiley to indicate good intentions). Actually, I'm not taking a contrary line. But I think would be correct to separate the expert line issues from the spark / dialogue / phantom issues. They may be related, but it we're going to be most effective in prompting Devialet if the focus of of the problem is distinct. Or not. 

I'm not running a dual mono set up, and I don't have many hi-res/ high nitrate files. But I did dig up the few 24/ 96 files I have, and I streamed them using AIR on ethernet and wifi. Router is wired to D120 with ethernet, and wireless from iMac to router, using iTunes and running Mavericks. I did not have any dropouts or noise issues at all. I've been doing this for a few days before posting. My D120 was manufactured in July 2014 according to the info on the display, so would be an updated 110.

If fact the only issue I've had has been with the airport express forgetting itself; the D120 has been flawless. Because I'm not using 24/192 or higher files, my trial may not be relevant to the the others, but I thought I would post it, if only as low-level reference. At this point, however, I don't think we can say that all Expert line products demonstrate this behaviour. 

Hi Damon

Thanks for your post. I do want to present a fair view and I believe there are many people using AIR problem free. My set up has some similarities to yours and it's fair to say that if I run ethernet from router to Devialet using 16/44.1, that minimises white noise. And seemingly proportionately moreso if the Devialet has been powered down (not just sleeping) for a while. Indeed, I have left it running all night and found it still free of white noise in the morning. So much so that I have thought that I have discovered the cause.

But sooner or later it returns, ethernet or wifi, hi-res or 16/44.1. 

On your first point I'm definitely seeking to restrict the discussion to the Expert line. If we can devise a simple but pertinent survey, it will appear in a few days' time. 

Thank you.

Please dont restrict it to the Expert line as it looks like a problem everyone could have. My 200 is brand new so i would doubt I am the only one. The only way to find out is to open the poll up to everyone.

[thumb5]

Please dont restrict it to the Expert line as it looks like a problem everyone could have. My 200 is brand new so i would doubt I am the only one. The only way to find out is to open the poll up to everyone.

Just to clarify, the Expert line includes: 110/120, 170/200, 240/250, 400 and 800 along with the D-Premier (at least, that's my understanding).  The point is to distinguish this range from the new Phantom/Dialog system.

[Womaz]

Please dont restrict it to the Expert line as it looks like a problem everyone could have. My 200 is brand new so i would doubt I am the only one. The only way to find out is to open the poll up to everyone.

Just to clarify, the Expert line includes: 110/120, 170/200, 240/250, 400 and 800 along with the D-Premier (at least, that's my understanding).  The point is to distinguish this range from the new Phantom/Dialog system.

I embarrass myself again

[thumb5]

I embarrass myself again

Not at all - I didn't mean to be abrupt

[Damon]

Thanks IanG-UK,
I really appreciate that you did not take my post as diminishing the problem or the experiences of the users in any way. It is interesting that you note the problem occurs even with 16/ 44.1 files. One of the points I made in my post was to mention my file size, as it seemed that the noise seemed to be a factor on higher res. files. So, good clarification on that point.

On the Expert line vs Phantom / Dialogue / Spark distinction, I was thinking that the issues with the Phantoms may be specific to the new equipment, and possibly new software. A flaw in the AIR system, whether hardware or software, should not be shelved while they fuss with the new toys.

Finally, I would add that one of the reasons I abandoned Naim was the relentless fallibility of the app and UPnP streaming... (well, the sound quality difference made the change inevitable). I can't tell you how pleased I am with the stability I've experienced with the D120. After the Naim streaming grief, I do have genuine sympathy for the issues you are experiencing. Gawd, the swearing was incredible.....