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AES67: Zero Latency with Gstreamer
#1
As some of you know: Phantoms Premiere uses GStreamer to transfer audio between dialog and speakers. 
There is a open protocol wich is called AES67. AES67 can handle multi channel uncompressed audio with latencys by 5-10ms. 
GStreamer supports AES67. So if devialet would jump on this train, we could stream any source with our existing hardware with nearly zero latency. 
Also Surround setups would be possible.
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#2
While this would be great, it’s my understanding that the streaming protocol is not what introduces the lag. It’s the digital signal processing on the speakers themselves.
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#3
I dont think so, cause optical direct mode would also produce a lag in that case.
It think it caused by buffering for network transfer.
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#4
@da2001 I can confirm that the sole source of observable latency in Phantom is due to network buffering, and you are right about the optical direct mode which bypasses the network entirely and does not show such latency.

You say that Phantom should just use the AES67 protocol because GStreamer on which it is built supports it. Although that's true, you're missing one key point completely: AES67 is designed for wired ethernet. It's so much easier to have latency guarantees using good old, dedicated copper wires... Wi-Fi or PLC are nowhere as reliable...

And now, think about the fact that 99% of the Phantom customer installations are wireless through either Wi-Fi or PLC.

I'll let you figure out why they are not using AES67.
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#5
If that's the case, then seriously, WTF Devialet? Why would you have not created a box for TV/gaming input? Why have you not made a 5.5 setup?

If it's just network buffering, that's frankly insane.
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#6
Still annoyed. People who spend that much on a speaker (or two) will be able to run dedicated cables, or Ethernet. Why have a buried optical mode instead of just supporting it properly?

I've run dedicated LAN cables for much cheaper setups, or buried speaker cables in the wall. We have a buffer introduced because most people won't have ethernet cables? That's frankly, madness.

Devialet - can we just fix these speakers so they can work like regular, no lag, good sounding, speakers - and THEN introduce loads of random extra crap? Grrr.
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#7
I can understand that people would want simple low-latency Ethernet audio in something like a Phantom (I would!), but using AES67 is not as simple as adding the GStreamer plugin. The protocol was designed for managed, professional networks, and setup is not super easy (look at the setup guide for any Dante/RAVENNA/AES67 enables product). I think the number of support requests that poorly setup AES67 installations would generate, or the confusion of people thinking that they have networked audio "so why don't I see the Phantom on my PC?" etc., etc. – the Phantom is still a "consumer" product.

Plus, there's already a same-end-result solution available!

What Devialet does in complex installations with multiple speakers is a mix of both worlds using special-made Dante-to-optical adapters (https://www.audinate.com/products/dante-...al-adapter). This way you can setup as many Dante streams as you want (very close to AES67 by the way, I believe there's even a patent dispute) and use the direct optical mode on as many Phantoms as you want for, say, a 16-channel Atmos installation :-)
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#8
Let's start with spark logs? Can people upload some wireshark logs of playing something on phantoms during idle network , thru wifi?
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#9
First post here Smile

i want to buy the Devialet Phantom's, was about the buy the Golds, then learned about the latency. I have spent months trying to fid a work around but I'm not convinced the optical only, bypassing the processing will have great quality (please correct me if I'm wrong!).

It would mainly be used for streaming, which is obviously fine but I also want to mix vinyl through them which would be useless with the latency. I'm really surprised of so many years of these speaker being around there is still such slow latency and that has ultimately stopped me purchasing these otherwise truly great speakers.

What a monumentally frustrating shame!
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#10
(26-Jan-2019, 13:31)YoYoBuffalo Wrote: First post here Smile

i want to buy the Devialet Phantom's, was about the buy the Golds, then learned about the latency. I have spent months trying to fid a work around but I'm not convinced the optical only, bypassing the processing will have great quality (please correct me if I'm wrong!).

It would mainly be used for streaming, which is obviously fine but I also want to mix vinyl through them which would be useless with the latency. I'm really surprised of so many years of these speaker being around there is still such slow latency and that has ultimately stopped me purchasing these otherwise truly great speakers.

What a monumentally frustrating shame!

At least you did the research and found out before you bought.
                                                    Lifetime Roon, Mac mini, int. SSD, ext. HDD, tv as monitor, key board and track pad on bean bag as remote,Devialet 200, Od'A #097, Blue jeans speaker cable,                                     
                                                                                                                                                                            Dynaudio C1 MkII.
                                                                                                                                                                              Jim Smith's GBS.
                                                                                                                                                                        Northern NSW Australia.
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