Are the Copyright restrictions make your sound worst ?

[rtt1]

I was listening music CD from my PC to devialet using RJ45 ; them from my Oppo 105 to devialet using RCA coaxial , and found that don"t have much diference in sound qualit
Them I look in Oppo manual to see if was something wrong
And I found this


// From page 64 manual Oppo 105
3. Coaxial/Optical Output: Allows you to set the audio format and the upper sample rate limit for
coaxial/optical (S/PDIF) digital outputs. The upper sample rate limit is used to decide whether the
player will down-sample audio (the player does not up-sample audio to higher sample rates).
48k LPCM – Forces down-mixed 2-channel, linear PCM (LPCM) digital audio format, and sets
the maximum sample rate to 48kHz. This is supported by most receivers/amplifiers.
96k LPCM – Forces down-mixed 2-channel, linear PCM (LPCM) digital audio format and sets
the maximum sample rate to 96kHz. It can result in better audio quality, but ensure the
receiver/amplifier can support it.
192k LPCM – Forces down-mixed 2-channel, linear PCM (LPCM) digital audio format and sets
the maximum sample rate to 192kHz. It can result in better audio quality, but ensure the
receiver/amplifier can support it.
Bitstream (default) – Passes audio as compressed bitstream format to the receiver/amplifier.
Choose this setting if your receiver/amplifier is capable of decoding Dolby Digital and/or DTS.
NOTE
Due to copyright restrictions and bandwidth limitations, SACD audio cannot be sent through the
coaxial/optical audio output, and the high resolution audio on DVD-Audio and Blu-ray discs will
be sent out at reduced resolution. Details can be found on page 19.


The first problem was by default Oppo105 send Compressed bitstream (lossy data) from Coaxial/Optical Output ; you can fix this setting the option to 192k LPCM because devialtet can suport 192k LPCM audio
And found the audio became more clear and detailed ; well I was listen lossy data
And I make the test again and got a better sound from Oppo 105 than PC

Them I read the copyright restrictions , I put some 192k/24bit disk , and I got 48k in devilalet
I beleave que some other player have this restriction too
So is good to see if if the Copyright restrictions are make your sound wrost or not
Note I can fix this Copyright restrictions using HDMI to feed Devialet , but my Devialet don't have HDMI
Now I have to find a transport that don't have this restriction; to see if I can get some improvement using recorded DVD-A

[Pim]

rtt1,

Have a look on Computer Audiophile. Chris has written about ripping SACD in the past. I think you need an old Sony Play station though.

[Mka]

You need a PS3 (an early on) with a rather old system version. There is some rather lengthy procedure (easy ton find via google) how to install a special firmware and the extract sacd software.
You can get full ISO rips and extract dsf files out of these.

Works great and I used it on all my sacd's

[rtt1]

Thanks for the hint, I have take a look in this process , and is really dificult to get it work , because I don't have a PS3 , and if I buy the wrong PS3 or make some mistake in hack the PS3 I will lose the PS3

I read is possible to Hack a SACD player to send PCM or DSD audio thru RCA-Coaxial or Toslink to an audio card , and save in PC

I don't know if even a dedicated Transport has that limitation because it have to send the data to a DAC , this can be another solution too

The trouble is the restrictions that RCA-Coaxial and Toslink have in most player; for default it always down-sample to 44.1/16 PCM

// I get this information in this site
http://amplioaudio.blogspot.com.br/2014/...ur-pc.html

Thanks

[agentsmith]

The PS3 ripping method is a godsend but many caveats.

First of all you have to find a old version of the first generation PS3. Sony in its infinite wisdom had killed its own child and casually stopped shipping with Blu Ray+DVD+SACD drives and replaced with Blu-Ray+DVD+CD drives instead.

Identifying such drives is sort of a science onto itself.

Second of all you have to find a PS3 with older firmware (3.55 or older.) Since most people automatically update their PS3 to latest those old firmware PS3s are hard to find.

And that's not all. Apparently PC3s are made like Formula One cars, it runs in high temperature and the drives and/or the motherboards are very fragile and prone to failure even after light use. And if you take it to the Sony shop, they will most likely replace the drive with a non-sacd drive.

I was lucky to get a pristine barely used PS3, but the drive seems out of alignment and I had to slant the machine in an odd angle to read most SACD discs. But the hack does work wonderfully.

So I am treating the PS3 like a princess, only turn her on when ripping, and gives her lots of airflow.

And I am running on borrowed time, that PS3 is bound to die eventually.

[f1eng]

If you own the SACD what is wrong with just playing it? If you have an Oppo 105 the DAC is good and the Devialet analogue input is completely transparent.
OTOH if you always/only want to stream from a computer...

[rtt1]

f1eng : I don't want only stream from a computer
I want to listen the music from my SACD and my Oppo 105 in Devialet using digital input because I beleave that I can get a better sound ; note the analog music has to pass thru a ADC then to DAC

But first problem Devialet don't process DSD-SACD audio
Even if some day Devialet become compatible with DSD
My Oppo don't send DSD data thru Coaxial/Optical Output
And I have some BlueRay with music in 192/24 PCM , Oppo Always dowsample 192/24 PCM to 44.1/16 PCM
But if I have music in 192/24 why I have to listen it in 44.1/16

second Problem : Devialet don't have HDMI input , only D-Premier has
And Oppo only send DSD and 192/24 PCM thru HDMI output ; because HDMI has copy-protection HDCP
But Coaxial/Optical Output don't have copy-protection , that is why Oppo put a "copy-protection" on this output , Oppo dowsample 192/24 music to 44.1/16 and don't send DSD thru Coaxial/Optical Output

Now I have to RIP from my SACD and DVD-A to put in my PC and listen de audio streaming from RJ45 ou WiFi

Or I have just to find a dedicated Transport that can send music in SACD or DVD-A without any loss in audio qualit to my Devialet using the digital conection my Devialet has , Toslink , SPDIF or AES/EBU (find a transport that don't have "copy protection" in this conection)

Or ask to Devialet to put a HDMI input

[f1eng]

f1eng : I don't want only stream from a computer
I want to listen the music from my SACD and my Oppo 105 in Devialet using digital input because I beleave that I can get a better sound ; note the analog music has to pass thru a ADC then to DAC

But first problem Devialet don't process DSD-SACD audio
Even if some day Devialet become compatible with DSD
My Oppo don't send DSD data thru Coaxial/Optical Output
And I have some BlueRay with music in 192/24 PCM , Oppo Always dowsample 192/24 PCM to 44.1/16 PCM
But if I have music in 192/24 why I have to listen it in 44.1/16

second Problem : Devialet don't have HDMI input , only D-Premier has
And Oppo only send DSD and 192/24 PCM thru HDMI output ; because HDMI has copy-protection HDCP
But Coaxial/Optical Output don't have copy-protection , that is why Oppo put a "copy-protection" on this output , Oppo dowsample 192/24 music to 44.1/16 and don't send DSD thru Coaxial/Optical Output

Now I have to RIP from my SACD and DVD-A to put in my PC and listen de audio streaming from RJ45 ou WiFi

Or I have just to find a dedicated Transport that can send music in SACD or DVD-A without any loss in audio qualit to my Devialet using the digital conection my Devialet has , Toslink , SPDIF or AES/EBU (find a transport that don't have "copy protection" in this conection)

Or ask to Devialet to put a HDMI input

I know that the sound has to go through the ADC/DAC in the Devialet.
I bought my first Devialet over 3 years ago. In my evaluations the ADC/DAC is 100% transparent, so you could probably put it through 50 times with no audible loss of quality (I haven't tried this with the Devialet but did years ago with a digital recorder to compare with my reel-to-reel tape recorder).

So as long as the analogue output of your Oppo is good the Devialet will lose absolutely none of the SQ using the analogue input, in my extensive experience of the Devialet.

If you believe there is something inherently better about DSD (which I do not), rather than the released recordings simply being better mixes then I agree , you have had it.

[Confused]

My Pioneer BDP-450 Bluray player will output DSD via coax or HDMI. It's a relatively cheap machine, but is a transport only, so you are not paying for a DAC you do not need, plus I think the lack of DAC is the way of getting 'round the copyright issues - if it can't output DSD it won't work. I bought this recently for the purpose of occasionally playing Bluray films, something I don't do too often, so I didn't feel the need to buy a super expensive machine. It actually sounds much better than it has any right to at the price, playing SACD direct to the Devialet, although the Pioneer has to be set to output PCM due to the lack of DSD support. This would worry enormously, but to be honest, I only have 4 SACD's, and one of those is 5.1. A lot of People refer to the "hacked" PlayStation trick, but I would imagine that even a "budget" Pioneer Bluray would have the edge as a transport? It's also quite good with 3D films, or at least it was with the one 3D movie that I have on disc. It will also play hi res files direct from USB, say from a memory stick. I am not saying this is good as Ethernet streaming, it is not, but neither is it far off. A sub £200 "front end" in a system costing many £1000's, and performing well, strange times we live in.....

I believe a DSD via USB upgrade is being considered by Devialet, I guess the Pioneer would not be a lot of use in this scenario, no USB, just HDMI or Coax. Oh well, but I don't think my own personal SACD collection is going to get very much larger any time soon. I kind of agree with @f1eng, the efforts made during the studio mastering matter most, irrespective of format. However, the search for something beautifully mastered and on the highest quality format is compelling.

[rtt1]

Sorry but I have to please my hear , so is hard to take a word for granted, I have to compare it for may self if I will get some improvement or not ; the way this thing is I can't to that , and have to think in a way to get me out of this trouble

"Confused" can you confirm if you can read rate sample greater than 44.1kHZ on devialete coming from BDP-450 I read BCP-450 manual and don't find any information about that ; because I don't find any transport that send audio 192kHz thru coxial , even dedicated Transport that don't have HDMI use a special conector with proprietary tecnology for this job

But is funny this PS3-Rip thing and copyright
Copyright put a big wall and think all people is thief and send all people away from SACD
When PS3-Rip came ; a lot of people start to care more about SACD
you can see how is before and after PS3-Rip

Before
there were a lot of people who beleave that SACD will die
PC is not compatible with DSD
few peoples cares if a DAC or player is compatible with SACD
lot of people angry with SACD

After
most people don't beleve SACD will die
there is a lot of people who cares if DAC is compatible with DSD
increase number of Player DAC Sound Card compatible with DSD
more people buying SACD
HDTracks and other , selling DSD download
increase people that like DSD
there is DFF files
you can make playlist with DSD audio files
PC player can play SACD-R (burn ISO-SACD in DVD-R) but can't play SACD
and I hope Devialet will start be compatible with DSD