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Audio Science Review of Expert 200.
whatmore Wrote:
ssfas Wrote:They got the unit back. It was blown up under unofficial testing, it was not under warranty and was repaired free of charge with doo-to-door collection in 3 weeks during a pandemic. 

And people are still complaining, calling it a disaster. 

Some people will never be happy. But I am, as I have a 250 CI and I and my family enjoy it tremendously!

Seems they got the unit back with zero communication from Devialet.
No comment about why it had failed.
No comment about the measurements that seem to make a lie of Devialets claimed specs.
Why?

Poor form on Deviaet's part. But I guess we've all become inured to their lack of communication.

I would refer you to my comment in post #124 of this thread, to quote:

Do I expect Devialet to respond and clearly explain all this?  OK – If Devialet respond directly stating something like “yes, it is an inherent aspect of ADH, they can only produce 20W at 20kHz”, then I would be so surprised I would gladly eat my remote.

So a narrow escape for myself, I can continue using my remote for its intended volume adjusting purposes, and have a nice sandwich for lunch instead. Angel

Joking apart, although not surprised by this, I am disappointed that there was zero response from Devialet.  Not even a mention of why it failed?  If it was mine I would at least like to know what needed to be replaced or if a particular item was repaired. I would have expected at least something.  Also, checking in at ASR it looks like they do not intend to perform any measurements on the repaired unit.  Personally, I would have been very interested to have seen this done, in particular to see if the phase shift issue was still there (rather than maybe being a quirk of a failing unit), plus I would have liked to have seen ASR's measurements via the digital input.

But now we shall never know!

@ssfas - I have to agree with you that it is impressive that the unit was repaired and returned within three weeks, and at no charge. This actually gives me a degree of confidence in terms of long term ownership as the end of my 5 year warranty slowly approaches. Plus, as subjective comments are permitted here, mine is sounding good too!
1000 Pro - KEF Blade - iFi Zen Stream - Mutec REF10 - MC3+USB - Pro-Ject Signature 12
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alaw Wrote:Well, perhaps there's more to the story? Devialet: "We'll repair it at no charge, just sign this NDA...".

There is perhaps a lesson to be learnt here.  If at some time in the future someone has on old out of warranty Pro model that appears to be developing a fault, just send it to Amir for testing, he will break it, you will then get it back repaired for free by Devialet.  Something to keep in mind. Angel
1000 Pro - KEF Blade - iFi Zen Stream - Mutec REF10 - MC3+USB - Pro-Ject Signature 12
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(14-May-2020, 18:23)Confused Wrote:
alaw Wrote:Well, perhaps there's more to the story? Devialet: "We'll repair it at no charge, just sign this NDA...".

There is perhaps a lesson to be learnt here.  If at some time in the future someone has on old out of warranty Pro model that appears to be developing a fault, just send it to Amir for testing, he will break it, you will then get it back repaired for free by Devialet.  Something to keep in mind. Angel

Brilliant idea!!! 

Regarding your earlier post, I think Devialet did the right thing. 

- They repaired an out of warranty unit, so even if they get no thanks, they cannot be criticised.

- Do Devialet really give a damn about ASR? Will they lose one sale from what they say? They certainly won't gain one sale. So why would Devialet want to engage? Just completely pointless. 

Having spent a short period of time reading ASR before being banned (it took less than a day and about 10 posts) I'm of the view that it is largely (but not entirely) a measurementalist cult. 

The bizarre thing is that people at ASR think the outside world cares about what they say and that their views will affect consumer behaviour. I suppose that's what members of cults think. I can't think any significant manufacturer could give a damn about ASR.
250 Pro CI; Innuos Zen Mk3; Claro dual turntable (Expert Stylus Denon + OL Aladdin Mk2); RCM Sensor2; Wilson Sabrina; OePhi speaker cables; Puritan PM156 conditioner and Ultimate cables.
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(14-May-2020, 14:31)Confused Wrote: Seems they got the unit back with zero communication from Devialet.
No comment about why it had failed.
No comment about the measurements that seem to make a lie of Devialets claimed specs.
Why?

Poor form on Deviaet's part. But I guess we've all become inured to their lack of communication.

I would refer you to my comment in post #124 of this thread, to quote:

Do I expect Devialet to respond and clearly explain all this?  OK – If Devialet respond directly stating something like “yes, it is an inherent aspect of ADH, they can only produce 20W at 20kHz”, then I would be so surprised I would gladly eat my remote.

So a narrow escape for myself, I can continue using my remote for its intended volume adjusting purposes, and have a nice sandwich for lunch instead. Angel

Joking apart, although not surprised by this, I am disappointed that there was zero response from Devialet.  Not even a mention of why it failed?  If it was mine I would at least like to know what needed to be replaced or if a particular item was repaired. I would have expected at least something.  Also, checking in at ASR it looks like they do not intend to perform any measurements on the repaired unit.  Personally, I would have been very interested to have seen this done, in particular to see if the phase shift issue was still there (rather than maybe being a quirk of a failing unit), plus I would have liked to have seen ASR's measurements via the digital input.

But now we shall never know!

@ssfas - I have to agree with you that it is impressive that the unit was repaired and returned within three weeks, and at no charge.  This actually gives me a degree of confidence in terms of long term ownership as the end of my 5 year warranty slowly approaches.  Plus, as subjective comments are permitted here, mine is sounding good too!

I'm glad you enjoyed your lunch  :-)

I'm also not surprised. The CI board upgrades were done at dealers' premises here in Australia by a Devialet technician from Hong Kong who travelled around the country. I had trouble correctly seating an SD card in the SD slot after I got mine back. Cards worked but I had to push them in "just right" and I sometimes had to remove the card and reinsert it in order to get things to work. Eventually after some months I couldn't get it to accept a card. While removing the card on one occasion when things stopped working, I dropped the card and when I picked it up from the floor I found a mini SD card under it. I don't own or use any mini SD cards, I had no idea where it came from but there was only one possibility, it came out of the SD slot along with my normal SD card so I can only assume that the technician doing the upgrades was using a mini SD card in an adapter for the OS installation at the end of the upgrade and his mini SD card became detached from the adapter when he removed it after the upgrade and the mini SD card remained inside the slot making it difficult for me to insert my card successfully. and this ended up damaging the slot. I contacted Devialet and had to send the amp back to France for repair. I sent the mini SD card along with it and a note about what had happened. I got the amp back repaired, along with the mini SD card, and no explanation of what the problem had been. The amp now accepts SD cards with no problems. I still have no idea where the mini SD card came from apart from my supposition that the technician was using it for OS updating during the upgrade, no idea whether the mini SD card caused the problem or it was something else and, if it was something else, what the problem was. All I know is that I got the amp back and whatever was causing my SD card problems had been fixed.

Devialet can be very uninformative but they're very good at fixing hardware problems. It's a shame about the response to fixing software issues.

Addition: I've been playing with audio for 50 years now and I've probably only had to have a component repaired half a dozen times in that period. I've only ever got a response with a comment on the repair once. A disc jammed in my first CD player back around the end of the '80s and I had to send it off for repair to get the disc removed. The player came back along with my disc and a note which said something like "removed the disc, the player is working fine but the disc is awful". That was a comment on what the technician thought of the music on the disc, the disc still worked fine after its adventure.

I don't think it's usual to get any comments about a repair but I wish it was.
Roon Nucleus+, Devilalet Expert 140 Pro CI, Focal Sopra 2, PS Audio P12, Keces P8 LPS, Uptone Audio EtherREGEN with optical fibre link to my router, Shunyata Alpha NR and Sigma NR power cables, Shunyata Sigma ethernet cables, Shunyata Alpha V2 speaker cables, Grand Prix Audio Monaco rack, RealTRAPS acoustic treatment.

Brisbane, Qld, Australia
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(14-May-2020, 20:44)David A Wrote: I don't think it's usual to get any comments about a repair but I wish it was.

This was an unusual situation. Their lack of comment indicates that they are afraid of the answers becoming public.
Bad form from Devialet
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Taking a look at ASR, I notice that they have actually performed the basic "dashboard" check of the repaired D200. Interestingly, it does measure rather differently. The FFT curve is somewhat flatter, with a drop of roughly 10dB at the lowest frequencies for the latest unit. THD+N is a little lower, and the related SINAD a little higher. (THD+N drops from 0.00246% to 0.001835% and SINAD increases from 92.157 to 94.725 if you take the channel 1 numbers)

Nothing spectacular, although the FFT curve does look a lot nicer with the new unit, however, combined with the fact that Devialet have not advised what might have been wrong with the old unit, or what has been replaced or repaired with the new, it begs more questions than it answers.

Some of the recent posts on ASR rather good humoured too!
1000 Pro - KEF Blade - iFi Zen Stream - Mutec REF10 - MC3+USB - Pro-Ject Signature 12
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So they got no Pro Model back for testing?
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(15-May-2020, 13:51)markush Wrote: So they got no Pro Model back for testing?

What do you mean ?
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Is it a D200 no 220 Pro?
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@markush - on the first page of this thread there is a link to the ASR review.  If you read the last page (page 37) of the ASR thread you will know as much as anyone does here.

With reference to my post #142, the FFT curve does look a lot better for the "repaired" unit.  This does make me wonder, I guess it is just possible that Devialet returned the amp as a 220 Pro, and Amir did not notice this when he set the amp up to do the dashboard check.  Unlikely perhaps, but not entirely impossible.  To be honest, it does not look like ASR intend to test the returned amp anyway, so it is a rather academic point.

Here are the FFT curves for anyone's easy reference, with the "old" amp FFT first, the new / repaired amp FFT second:

       


As can be seen, whatever Devialet sent back, it is performing a little better than the original D200 that was reviewed.  So could this be because it is now a Pro?  Not impossible I guess.

One thought occurred to me.  Following the Pro upgrade scheme Devialet probably have a very large supply of old Expert boards in storage somewhere.  I have this image in my head of the broken ASR reviewed D200 arriving in France, and a Devialet tech removes all the electronics, goes to a big skip at the back of the building, finds the innards of on old D200, brushes of the dust and mould, sticks it in the case and sends it back.

Of course, the easiest way to work out what was returned is for whoever has the amp now to power it up, and read the display.
1000 Pro - KEF Blade - iFi Zen Stream - Mutec REF10 - MC3+USB - Pro-Ject Signature 12
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