AudioLinux NUC

[Dvlt PhD]

Thank you, Dan, and Confused. (!!!)

I'll probably have to contact Larry, soon, then.

By the way, I know some people are using Windows Server, instead (2012; 2016, some people will probably use 2019, soon) etc, somehow in relation to this site (at least, as an example). https://www.highend-audiopc.com/

Anyone know how it would compare?

Thanks.

[Confused]

@Dan - One thought I had earlier. A while ago I listened to a Devialet being fed DSD64 from a dCS Upsampler. This sounded superb, which was puzzling because the Devialet's DSD "MAT Algorithm" is basically converting the DSD back to PCM for use in the Devialet's ADH. Why it sounded good is a mystery, but it did sound good.

I have tried feeding PCM upsampled to DSD to the Mutec MC3+USB , which then converts to PCM and re-clocks. This did not sound that good, pleasant perhaps, but the bass lost definition and was noticeably softer, which I do not like.

Anyway, now you are feeding your Devialet via USB, there is nothing to stop you trying PCM upsampled to DSD 64, Roon can do this, as can HQPlayer. If I get time, I plan to try this myself at the weekend as part of trying the SOtM kit direct to the Devialet's USB. So maybe something you might want to try if you are ever in the mood?

Just a thought.

[Dan]

@Confused - I will give that a go. With the NUC Server I need to buy the HQPEmbedded (I currently have the desktop version). Before I had the Server I did send some DSD64 via HQP/ROON to the NUC Endpoint. I didn’t listen for very long but it did have less umphhh.

Once I do HQPE I’ll give it another go.

[Ibexman]

A little history. I bought a Devialet 120 because I liked how it sounded and looked - and in particular, I liked the 'one box' solution. I fed the Dev from a Macbook Air through a mRendu for several years with great results. Later I added ROON and HQPlayer - also with great results. Somewhere along the way I substituted a 1000Pro for the 120. I was a happy camper.

Then the problems (tweaks) started. 

Having read that the best input on the Devialet was XLR I added a Mutec MC3+USB, bought a XLR cable, and enjoyed a sound quality boost. Then, reading way too much on DevialetChat and CA (Computer Audiophile - now Computer AudioStyle), over the course of a year or so, I added a SOtM 200ULTRA (now a Neo), and then a SOtM tX-USBULTRA, and then a SOtM MODDED Switch, and then (of course) a Mutec REF-10 Master Clock. The three SOtM components required separate power supplies (SOtM 500, PH SR-4, and Uptone LPS 1.2). All of this sounded great, but my goodness - what a lot of boxes!

I had been following discussions about the dCS NETWORK BRIDGE and arraigned to demo one in my system. I also was following the NUC thread on DC and Computer Audiophile. I am not a computer person so much of the discussion was over my head and, quite frankly, confusing - Linux, BIOS, Commands, etc. Much of it seemed to be for the DIY crowd - which I am definitely not a member of. But, I was intrigued because the sound quality was supposed to be great (here we go again..). So, I kept an eye on the discussion while I awaited the NETWORK BRIDGE demo.

In the meantime I was reading one of @Confused great posts here on DC. In it he referenced NUCkleheadaudio.com as someone who was building NUCs (for non-computer people). Still not fully understanding what a NUC is and what it does I contacted NUCklehead, explained my system, indicated I was about to demo a NB, and asked what NUCklehead could offer instead. Larry got back to me right away. After multiple emails - mostly me asking many questions about how a NUC would work for me - I decided to go for it. Basically, in my system, it would replace the SOtM 200ULTRA, and if it really sounded great, maybe a few other boxes???

10 days later (and before the NETWORK BRIDGE demo) Larry actually hand delivered a NUC to my house (not sure he does this all over the world...). It requires a power supply so I used the SR4 that had been powering the SOtM 200. The first time you power up the NUC you insert a USB stick provided by NUCklehead - either one for ROON (if you are only listening to ROON) or one for NAA (if you are listening to HQP through ROON). After a couple of minutes - the NUC shows up as a Zone in ROON - and you are good to go. (NUCklehead can also set the NUC up so you can skip this step)

My word it sounded great. "Clearness', 'Bigness', come to mind (if those are musical words) - in particular, voices and the bass were outstanding - and this was all with only the NUC in play - an ethernet cable in and a USB cable out to the DEV. His work done, Larry left and I continued to listen and enjoy the music.

The next day I decided to put the other components (minus the 200) back in the chain. I found it continued to sound great which made me think the NUC was really bringing something different to the system. So, one by one I removed the other components. Still a great sound. So, I have improved the sound (I cannot think of any other tweak that improved the sound as much as this move) and  I have removed the following from my system:

tX-USBUltra with Master Clock input
tX-USBUltra Power Supply (SOtM sPS 500)
SOtM sPS 500 Power Cable
SOtM sPS 500 DC Silver Power Cable
1 USB Cable
1 BNC Master Clock Cable
Mutec MC3 USB
Mutec MC3 USB Power Cable
XLR Cable
1 BNC Master Clock Cable
Mutec REF-10
Mutec REF-10 Power Cable
1 BNC Master Clock Cable (had gone to the 200Ultra)

I am very happy with the sound quality first, and second, the simplification of my system. So much so that I asked Larry (NUCklehead) to build me a NUC Server that has now replaced my laptop - once again with a bump up in sound quality. The Server concerned me a bit because it is 'headless' but so far - no issues.

This is what I have in place now (for those who, unlike me, know what they mean):
 
NUC End Point (replaced the SOtM 200ULTRA)
1.9-4.2Ghz Turbo Intel Core i7-865OU Quad-Core Processor/mother board
4 Gb low latency ram
Akasa X7D Fanless Case
Audiolinux Headless Ramboot installed with NAA

NUC Server (replaced my laptop)
1.9-4.2Ghz Turbo Intel Core i7-865OU Quad-Core Processor/mother board
8 Gb low latency ram
32 Gb Optane SSD
Akasa X7D Fanless Case

To be clear, I have no relationship with NUCklehead - just a very satisfied customer. And I can't say enough about Larry's level of service. At one point he emailed me that he thought he found a setting in the BIOS that improved the sound. So he called in and talked me through the change in the BIOS - who knew I would be in the BIOS???

Sorry for the long post but, bottom line is my system sounds the best it ever has - and @Confused - I owe it to you.

Dan

Thank you for sharing:-)
If I understand this correct you have two boxes that do the same job as one Nucleus box can do? 
I understand that Nucleus can use AIR to Devaliet by ethernet, so we need only Devaliet and Nucleus. Or am I wrong? I do belive a Nucleus can do the same as my MacMini, but with better SQ.
Can we use AIR if we buy or make a NUC?

[Dan]

@Ibexman My two NUCs perform two functions. My experience has been that the sound quality increased if I had a audio 'audio computer' between my laptop and Devialet. At first I had a mRendu, later a SOtM 200Utra (other examples I considered dCS Network Bridge, Auralic G2, etc) between my laptop and Devialet. One of the NUCs I bought replaced my laptop the other replaced the SOtM 200Ultra ('audio computer'). 

I don't know the Nucleus well but I believe you can go from it to your Devialet with USB. You can also use ROON AIR and go to the Devialet via ethernet. You can still use ROON AIR if you have a NUC server - I have tried ROON AIR via ethernet but have felt that the sound was better with a separate 'audio computer' in between in my system.

Dan

[Ibexman]

@Ibexman My two NUCs perform two functions. My experience has been that the sound quality increased if I had a audio 'audio computer' between my laptop and Devialet. At first I had a mRendu, later a SOtM 200Utra (other examples I considered dCS Network Bridge, Auralic G2, etc) between my laptop and Devialet. One of the NUCs I bought replaced my laptop the other replaced the SOtM 200Ultra ('audio computer'). 

I don't know the Nucleus well but I believe you can go from it to your Devialet with USB. You can also use ROON AIR and go to the Devialet via ethernet. You can still use ROON AIR if you have a NUC server - I have tried ROON AIR via ethernet but have felt that the sound was better with a separate 'audio computer' in between in my system.

Dan

OK, now I understand better. Thanks:-)
I do the same as you - trust my ears:-) I use a MacMini (quadcore with ssd disk) as source, with Roon core installed. But belive I can better SQ from Roon Nucleus or similar made NUC as source. 
Have some idea why you getter SQ with two boxes? 

As I understand your first NUC acts as a streamer, and your second for Roon Core. Correct? 
If so, is it possible one of these can do both? Same as Roon Nucleus.

I have compared AIR (ethernet) and USB some times, with good (and expencive) USB kables. But in my ears AIR wins, and best USB cables close to AIR. So I have decided to stick to AIR, but maybe some time try other ethernet cables, powersupply for switch etc.

Morten

[Dan]

Morten - you’ve got it right, the NUC Server has the ROON CORE (actually ROON SERVER) and the second NUC (which NUCklehead calls an Endpoint) is ‘streamer’ like. I’m sure if you check out the massive thread on CS you will find a discussion about 1 versus 2 boxes. I believe it has to do with letting each box do only what it was meant to do - but I’m no expert here - that’s why I bought a NUC built by someone else!

Dan

[Ibexman]

Dan: Thanks for sharing your experience:-) I like to hear from people who actualy have tried themselves and listen with a open mind. 
I tried to read the CA thread, but almost fall asleep after a few pages. So I will talk to NUCklehead.

Morten

[Confused]

@mmorrison55 Not sure how you listen to music but simplistically I had ROON (Core) on a laptop that sent music to a SOtM 200 Ultra (Endpoint) that then passed it on to the Devialet. I started with 1 NUC that replaced my SOtM 200Ultra and then, based on the nice sound improvement, added (a few weeks later) a second NUC that replaced my laptop. Having 1 NUC does not mean you have to have the other. For sound quality it is recommended to separate these two functions. Does that make sense? 

@Confused I'll be curious to hear your thoughts on the USB input. On the relative costs issue, I wasn't trying to put you on the spot, just wanted to be clear these are not 'inexpensive'. But you explained it well.

Dan

Yesterday I had a couple of hours "quiet time" with my system, so I tried the sMS-200Ultra direct via USB.  That was the plan, anyway.  It was a case of whatever could go wrong did go wrong!  At first, I tried the sMS-200Ultra and tXUSBultra via USB, and I just could not get it to work.  Initially, the problem was just cable swapping, a quirk of my rack layout and the spaghetti cabling makes it very difficult to remove the USB cable from the Mutec MC3+USB, and then you have probably inadvertently removed cables from the SOtM kit.  (the USB sockets on the SOtM kit are a bit flimsy and do not hold the cables firmly)  After that, the frustrating problem of everything set up as it should be but no sound.  I am still not sure what the issue was, something to do with either Eunhasu or HQPlayer / Roon not seeing the unit.  Much trial and error, rebooting etc. and I got it to work with just the sMS-200Ultra.  By this time I was a little angry and frustrated at the time I had wasted, but I did sit down to listen, albeit not in a good frame of mind.  I then had another go at getting it to work with the tx-USBUltra in the chain, again, for reasons not fully understood this did not work, but eventually did.  I came up with some observations and wanted to switch back to the MC3+USB to compare, this time locking out Eunhasu, which could not pick up the sMS-200 at all.  Even a complete reboot of the PC and the sMS-200Ultra did not solve this.  I thought I had junked the sMS-200ultra, and I even tried the getting it back to life with the old SD card/firmware that I had, which did not work.  I eventually solved this by running Eunhasu via Chrome, rather than Edge, all very odd.  So that went well!  Anyway, I listened long enough to establish that the SOtM kit does sound excellent via USB, so my old reservations with the Expert USB input (mainly bass accuracy) are gone now I am running a Pro.  Not exactly conclusive though, all of this hassle put me in the wrong frame of mind for this kind of listening.  I have some thoughts though, I think this test would be a lot easier if I had an additional USB cable, so I could just swap the output cable at the SOtM end.  I might treat myself to a Lush 2, which I consider to be part audiofoolery, and part good science, due to it's "JSGG 360" shielding.  It is expensive though, if anyone has any top recommendations for a £100 1m USB cable, let me know.  (I am using Audioquest Carbon at the moment)  My last thought is that I should wait until I have the SR4 power supplies before I try this again.  If I want to give USB it's best chance, then it would be best to have the best possible power for the SOtM kit.

Initial thoughts, maybe a touch more bass, a bit fuller via USB, in a good way.  There was maybe a bit of upper-mid digital hash via USB that I had not noticed via the MC3+USB, but mindful of how this particular test went, I am really not sure.  I can say that I heard enough to be convinced that using the Pro via USB has great potential, any reservations I had with the Expert via USB are gone.  To be continued, I guess.

[mmorrison55]

@Confused

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis9b1...al-digital

I’ve bought several cables from Bill, they are all very good performers and don’t break the bank. I have NOT bought his usb cable yet, but as soon as I have a streamer that uses usb, I will not hesitate to get him to make me one.