"Audiophile Grade" Ethernet Switches - The new generation

[Superdad]

As reported in another thread, after a very extensive comparison with a super optimized EtheRegen setup costing 5+ times the Melco S100... I clearly prefer the Melco.

Hi Bernard:
I guess I am a bit confused (would not be the first time... ). Just last week you wrote this on the other forum:

"As of today, I feel that the EteRegen set up is now a bit superior to the Melco, but it's probably close and my current feeling is that, in my environment, it's probably simpler and cheaper to just deploy a Melco with Uptone LPS instead of an expensive clock to drive the EtheRegen in a super optimized environment."

And you reported your setup as this:
---
"I finally got my clock cable and was able to deploy a few days ago the following configuration:
- SonoreOptical module -> fiber -> EtheRegen -> Devialet 1000 Expert Pro CI
Additional considerations:
- I use as external clock a Cybershaft OP21A-D with external linear power supply connected to a Shunyata Everest power conditioner with a Shunyata Venom V14 Digital cable
- The clock cable connecting the EtheRegen to the Cybershaft is a Shunyata Sigma 75 Ohm
- The Cybersharft is configured in chassis grounding mode and is grounded to the Shunyata Everest which is my common grounding reference for the whole system (this is point is in fact pretty important soundwise)
- The EtheRegen is fed by a LPS-1.2, itself connected with a Shunyata Venom V14 Digital to the Shunyata Everest
- The EtherRegen is also grounded to the Shunyata Everest
- I have designed and had 3D printed in aluminium a special heatsink cradle enhanced with copper plates to help with heat dissipation of the EtheRegen and LPS."
----

Now that is a lot of complicated stuff--and perhaps you overdid it for our humble yet innovative $640 switch.
Yet still, you say 5+ times the cost of a Melco S100?  The Melco is $2,100 in the USA. So are you saying you added $10,000 of clocks, cables, and power supplies to the EtherREGEN? That seems a bit much... 

Perhaps UpTone should offer a multi-thousand switch to compete. But if we do, it will certainly have more interesting engineering than the case and PS upgraded Buffalo-based Melcos. I am sure you have seem the reports of people buying the Buffalo that the S100 is based on and taking it much further with mods. Maybe that will be your next steps? 

Cheers,
--Alex C.
UpTone Audio LLC

[bernardl]

Hi Alex,

Thanks for jumping in and for your great support of your products.

I paid my Melco 140,000 Yen here in Tokyo, which is 1,300 US$.

The clock alone costs 6,500 US$, the clock cable 2,000 US$, the ground cable nearly 1,000 US$, the custom designed 3D printed aluminium heat sink 600 US$. I did in fact underestimate the ratio a bit. It’s closer to 6.

I would of course not have bought this clock/clock cable for the Etheregen alone. It’s going to clock a Mutec once I get the right LPS.

I agree with you that this isn’t reasonable for the erheregen alone, no discussion.

And yes, I changed my mind on this. I first thought I liked the etheregen based set up better, but something wasn’t quite clicking. Upon redeployment of the Melco I just like it better. Sorry, this is just my feeling.

No intention to do mods to the S10. I have spent enough time/energy/money optimizing the network part of the system for now.

I’ll contact you privately later.

Cheers,
Bernard

[philoouu]

@bernardl

Nice you finally found something that suits you after such a long journey. The good point is that you will also make your system simpler removing a few cables as the Melco S10 (and S100) does not accept external clock and it is not convenient to attach a ground cable either. For me simple is good and the global idea/philosophy of the Expert was the one box "simple" concept.

I bought the Melco S100 because of the Roon/Devialet bug to start with. Otherwise I probably would not have bought an "audiophile" network switch.
I had never intention to do any comparisons, or add a LPS as it is very subjective anyway but it was interesting to follow your different posts. 

I consider that Dela/Melco/Buffalo is a very strong brand in this audio business for a long time. Obviously it makes sense that they share technologies between their different brands. I was interested by their music servers too at some point but I came to the conclusion that having Roon and only storing data on their server is a waste. I am sure they will come at some point with a Roon Ready Server.

[Antoine]

Just as an FYI; I‘ve read multiple user reports that the LPS1.2 is not the best match for the Etherregen. Not because it’s a bad PSU but most likely because with the ER it’s operating near maximum capacity. Better results can be had with PSU’s like those of Paul Hynes Designs or Farad. People who compared these both gave the edge to the Paul Hynes.

I’ve also read many user reports stating, in general, the relative importance of high quality PSU’s (=‘critical’) vs. high quality clocks (=more like ‘icing on the cake’). Of course some devices do profit more than others of either tweak or both so experimentation is key or learning from other users of course.

[Marcin_gps]

M12 SWITCH GOLD  /w OPTIMO 3 DUO power supply review on 6moons:

'JCAT significantly boosted my not exactly affordable rig’s performance and didn’t alter its natural flavour. But this set’s potency way up there with a major component upgrade, would leave many seasoned ears rather surprised. Most of us simply don’t expect supportive boxes to do this type of wicked work, but some do. I have no idea how much would I have to spend on speakers, DAC or amp clearly above those I already own, but most likely nowhere near today’s sum total.'
Dawid Grzyb, Hifi Knights & 6moons

Full review available here: https://6moons.com/audioreview_articles/jcat/

[bernardl]

Just as an FYI; I‘ve read multiple user reports that the LPS1.2 is not the best match for the Etherregen. Not because it’s a bad PSU but most likely because with the ER it’s operating near maximum capacity. Better results can be had with PSU’s like those of Paul Hynes Designs or Farad. People who compared these both gave the edge to the Paul Hynes.

I’ve also read many user reports stating, in general, the relative importance of high quality PSU’s (=‘critical’) vs. high quality clocks (=more like ‘icing on the cake’). Of course some devices do profit more than others of either tweak or both so experimentation is key or learning from other users of course.

Thanks Antoine. 

However Uptone claims on their site that the 1.2 is fully able to drive the EtheRegen and that the power supply doesn’t play a role in the first place don’t they?

Anyway, I’ll have a multi-rail Paul Hynes SR7T in a few months. Will give it another try then.

What is a bit strange is that using the LPS-1.2 with the S100 delivered a clear improvement. Now the S10 has it’s own dedicated LPS so the Uptone LPS-1.2 is having a rest.

I may repurpose it to power the Sonore OpticalModule that currently runs on a cheap SPS plugged in a Shunyata PS8 running from another wall outlet. I don’t expect much improvement. 

Cheers,
Bernard

[bernardl]

M12 SWITCH GOLD  /w OPTIMO 3 DUO power supply review on 6moons:

'JCAT significantly boosted my not exactly affordable rig’s performance and didn’t alter its natural flavour. But this set’s potency way up there with a major component upgrade, would leave many seasoned ears rather surprised. Most of us simply don’t expect supportive boxes to do this type of wicked work, but some do. I have no idea how much would I have to spend on speakers, DAC or amp clearly above those I already own, but most likely nowhere near today’s sum total.'
Dawid Grzyb, Hifi Knights & 6moons

Full review available here: https://6moons.com/audioreview_articles/jcat/

I haven’t tried this one, but I can clearly testify, to my surprise I must say, that audiophile switches do make a clear difference.

Cheers,
Bernard

[Antoine]

@bernardl, you’re absolutely correct about Uptone’s statement regarding ‘fancy’ LPSU’s in that they’re not -required- to enjoy the benefits their design brings. However their ‘not hearing much of a difference’ for many is not the case. I remember them saying a similar thing with the original USBregen where their SMPS PSU for me did really harm SQ. In this case with the ER I have not experimented with different PSU’s. Since day 1 it’s running powered by an Hynes SR4 as all SR7 rails were occupied. But others have and reported the less than optimal results using the LPS1.2.

Congrats on purchasing an SR7, without a doubt one of the best LPSU’s money can buy right now!

The quote on Uptone Audio’s website regarding PSU’s.

Use of a fancy linear power supply (such as our matching UltraCap LPS-1.2) is NOT required to get outstanding performance from the EtherREGEN. While high-quality power supplies make a nice difference most everywhere else in a music system, we personally are not hearing very much change with power supplies and the EtherREGEN (certainly owing to its great isolation and internal power networks). Yet others do report some benefit, so you are of course welcome to experiment within the +DC 7~12V range.  [Note: The original UltraCap LPS-1, with top setting of 7V, does not have enough current for the EtherREGEN. The UltraCap LPS-1.2, with its 9V and 12V settings can easily power an EtherREGEN.]

[bernardl]

Thank you Antoine.

I’ll probably give the EtheRegen another try with the SR7T in a few months.

Cheers,
Bernard

[supaDean]

This is an interesting thread! I recently installed a mid-range audiophile ethernet switch into my setup, and was pleasantly surprised. The lower frequencies have a bit more punch and my noise floor is dead silent. I acquired the switch primarily for when I stream hi-res Tidal. And, I also happened to need an ethernet switch for the computers in the house. Cheers.