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Auditioned the 803 D3 - surprising outcome
#1
Good Evening Everyone,
 
Today, I auditioned the BW 803 D3 at my local dealer. With a rather surprising outcome. Please allow me to share my humble experience.
 
I called my dealer 2 weeks ago to book a session with the BW 803 D3 and the 220 Pro which I own myself. Everything was setup when I got there, even the SAM profile was loaded which I very much appreciated. SAM was always at 100%. I brought a USB stick loaded with my music and a good amount of CDs with more or less the same music, just in case. I always wanted to try those BW speakers with the 220 Pro, particularly because Devialet seems to have a favor for BW during demos and due to all the great reviews I have read.
 
The music I listen to is groovy, funky and electric. Funk, hip-hop, jazz, electronic, drum&bass, pop and some alternative rock, trying to use the genres to describe my kind of sound. Classic music takes a very tiny part in my collection. I think I started with some songs from Macy Grey’s album Stripped, went on with James Brown and songs from Les McCann’s Talkin’ Verve album, on to Toy from Yelo, Pepe Deluxe and Hello Nasty from the B.Boys.
 
I always have the impression that my system at home sounds a bit too bright for my ears. The treble is at -2 on my Dev at home. I felt the same today and changed the treble to -1.5 today. Even in my cars I tend to lower the treble. Must be my ears, I’ll take it as a compliment for having unspoiled ears ?
 
Macy sounded fantastic, a great recording, also confirmed by my dealer. Pure acoustic and unplugged. Fantastic open stage, representing all the details of the instruments, especially the string bass on the right and Macy’s voice always gives me goose bumps. For the funky parts I was missing the groove a bit, not dirty enough, a too perfect reproduction. I hope my words give you an idea.
 
Well, now here we get to the surprise. I loaded the latest Fünf Sterne Deluxe album. Track 3 is loaded with ridiculous bass which is shaking the windows and your midriff. Not serious, but fun sound, simply entertaining. It didn’t do anything right here. Nothing. Not at all. The BW just didn’t play it. Almost like the 803 D3 thought, no, this is not appropriate music, we are not going to play this. We are not built for this, we are too noble, this is not classic music, better get a sub for this kind of boooom. Missing the bass only happened with this song “Moin Boom Tschack”. I was like really, what’s happening, or rather not?
 
I switched the discs, trying to find the right music to enjoy this session, trying to find the speaker’s and my sweet spot of today. But, and I hate the ‘but’ here, it too much reminded me of what I have at home. Always bit too clear, too many highs, stressing my ear drums. OK, it’s not exactly like that, but you get the idea. So I asked to switch the 220 pro with a McIntosh MA8900 they have in the shop.
 
Quick background story. I had an MA5200 at home while the 120 was back in France to replace the chassis where the chrome plating went off and I very much enjoyed its sound. The MA8900 is a monster and the sound is different compared to a Devialet. They even and finally replaced that cheap 5-dollar piece of plastic which they call a remote with something really nice. Still, nothing comes close to the Devialet remote which is a piece of art. If there is another amp for me it would be a McIntosh. I think it is a totally different thing compared to the Devs. A V8 big block vs. a modern hybrid super car. Once more, I tried the booom song with this setup with the same result. Where is bass, damn it? These BWs simply don’t seem to be my cup of tea. I felt really sorry, and happy. Please don’t get me wrong here, this is a fantastic combo, it is just not my cup of tea.
 
Today’s personal conclusion: I don’t need to spend 16K for a set of speakers. My dealer is great! The MA8900 is super tempting, although I prefer this subtle piece of hardware the 220 Pro is. Now waiting for what the new board will bring for us. From a price point of view, both amps play pretty much in the same league. Being so fortunate for already having a pretty decent system, it is a lot of fun to test and experience different equipment which follow different technical solutions. Blessed!
 
I’ll be patient and I’ll stay curious and openminded.
 
 
Thanks for reading and enjoy the music,
Ralf
Bauer LS 3.0 - Ortofon 7.8N SPK - Octave RE320 - 220 Pro - DH Labs D-110 - Mutec MC-3+ USB - ROON ROCK NUC - Sbooster MKII - Technics 1200 MK2 w/ Quintet Blue
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#2
Nice post, Ralf. I must admit I thought the punchline would be that the MA8900 suddenly found the missing bass!

Was this just for fun, or are you looking out for new speakers? If the latter, what else is on your short list?
Roon (Mac Mini), Wilson Benesch Full Circle, Expert 1000 Pro CI, Kaiser Chiara
Warwickshire, UK
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#3
(23-Oct-2017, 22:10)thumb5 Wrote: Nice post, Ralf.  I must admit I thought the punchline would be that the MA8900 suddenly found the missing bass!

Was this just for fun, or are you looking out for new speakers?  If the latter, what else is on your short list?

Thanks!
Yes, I was looking for new speakers. Not anymore I guess :-) 
I liked the Dynaudio Focus a lot when I was looking for new speakers back then. The Contour 60 would be now on top of my list. I like the fact that my speakers are no nonsense, no marketing blabla and they are made here in my town, engeneered by two real geniuses.
Bauer LS 3.0 - Ortofon 7.8N SPK - Octave RE320 - 220 Pro - DH Labs D-110 - Mutec MC-3+ USB - ROON ROCK NUC - Sbooster MKII - Technics 1200 MK2 w/ Quintet Blue
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#4
Please keep this thread going if you make any progress on the speaker front. I am in the same bucket, wanting to get the most out of my 220 and mostly listening to electronic music.

I am keen to try the Ascendo D9's.
220 PRO CI (12.2.6) - B&W 683 S2 - Audioquest Niagara 1000 - Chromecast + iFi SPDIF 
Technics 1210 (AudioMods arm, AT-150MLX, Mike New bearing + platter, crystal mat, Isonoe feet, external DC PSU) Stockholm, Sweden

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#5
Ooh, that was a bucket of cold water. Have been just on the cusp of auditioning the 803 D3 myself and now you've set the cat amongst the pigeons. I did get to hear the Magico S3 Mk IIs at the HiFi show in Windsor at the weekend. They certainly floated my boat but were not driven by Devialet there, some American muscular amps. They sounded great and the bass was fantastic. Anyone lend me, say, £29,000?
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#6
Ralf - I have to say that I was not totally surprised by the outcome described in your original post. I did have a similar experience auditioning the 'old' B&W 800 Diamond (the last version prior to the current updated model) It was a reasonably good audition and I was impressed with many aspects of the speaker's performance, but the bass was way too polite for me. The bass was there, you could hear bass drop tones to the lowest frequencies, but it was just that, you could hear it but any notion of feeling it or bass slam was totally absent. I came to the conclusion that they would be excellent speakers for analysing the music, but not so good for actually enjoying the music.

It looks to me as if there is a high degree of overlap between the music you and I like to listen to. So maybe my experience might help. I used to have some late 90's vintage JBL's with lovely 12" woofers. I loved those JBL's, and when it came to the time to upgrade to something better I listened to all kinds of speakers. Many of them were better than the JBL's in a whole variety of ways, but nothing quite had everything I wanted, so the JBL's stayed, which was good because no money was spent! This all changed when I listened to the KEF Blades, I think that less than an hour into my first decent audition of them I had decided to buy. As for electronic music, for me the Blades are the best speakers I have ever heard with electronic music. OK, we may have some overlap in terms of music preference, but this does not necessarily mean we would end up having the same taste in speakers, I think speakers can be a very personal choice, far more than anything else in audio.

All I am saying is that if you can get a decent audition of the Blade or Blade 2, it would be at least be worth the time and effort. Of course the Blade 2 is slightly more expensive than the 803's, for that I can only apologise!

As a final point to note, the Blades can sound a little different dependant on room size, something to keep in mind if you get an audition in a room vastly different to what you might have at home. As an example, KEF recommend a minimum spacing for the Blade of 1m from the side walls, with 2m between the speakers, so you need a 5m wall. My wall at home is fractionally narrower than this (about 4.7m) and they sound fine. I have heard the Blades in a room a little under 4m wide, they were ok but there was a loss in bass performance (Blade 2 would be better), conversely, I have heard them in a very large room where again they worked well but were strangely different in character. All subtle stuff.
1000 Pro - KEF Blade - iFi Zen Stream - Mutec REF10 - MC3+USB - Pro-Ject Signature 12
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#7
(24-Oct-2017, 13:09)Confused Wrote: Ralf - I have to say that I was not totally surprised by the outcome described in your original post.  I did have a similar experience auditioning the 'old' B&W 800 Diamond (the last version prior to the current updated model)  It was a reasonably good audition and I was impressed with many aspects of the speaker's performance, but the bass was way too polite for me.  The bass was there, you could hear bass drop tones to the lowest frequencies, but it was just that, you could hear it but any notion of feeling it or bass slam was totally absent.  I came to the conclusion that they would be excellent speakers for analysing the music, but not so good for actually enjoying the music.

It looks to me as if there is a high degree of overlap between the music you and I like to listen to.  So maybe my experience might help.  I used to have some late 90's vintage JBL's with lovely 12" woofers.  I loved those JBL's, and when it came to the time to upgrade to something better I listened to all kinds of speakers.  Many of them were better than the JBL's in a whole variety of ways, but nothing quite had everything I wanted, so the JBL's stayed, which was good because no money was spent!  This all changed when I listened to the KEF Blades, I think that less than an hour into my first decent audition of them I had decided to buy.  As for electronic music, for me the Blades are the best speakers I have ever heard with electronic music.  OK, we may have some overlap in terms of music preference, but this does not necessarily mean we would end up having the same taste in speakers, I think speakers can be a very personal choice, far more than anything else in audio.

All I am saying is that if you can get a decent audition of the Blade or Blade 2, it would be at least be worth the time and effort.  Of course the Blade 2 is slightly more expensive than the 803's, for that I can only apologise!

As a final point to note, the Blades can sound a little different dependant on room size, something to keep in mind if you get an audition in a room vastly different to what you might have at home.  As an example, KEF recommend a minimum spacing for the Blade of 1m from the side walls, with 2m between the speakers, so you need a 5m wall.  My wall at home is fractionally narrower than this (about 4.7m) and they sound fine.  I have heard the Blades in a room a little under 4m wide, they were ok but there was a loss in bass performance (Blade 2 would be better), conversely, I have heard them in a very large room where again they worked well but were strangely different in character.  All subtle stuff.

Confused, thanks for confirming what I heard. I had my doubts this morning if really everything was setup correctly yesterday and about my own well being.
Yes, polite describes the 803's. And please stop talking about those KEF Blades  Dodgy   I just saved a huge amount of money and now this even more expensive idea. No, I will not listen to them, but my dealer has them Angel

And I diligently did not read Gerronwithit's note about the Magico S3 Mk IIs either. And I have never heard of Ascendo, very interesting, too.

Last night I listened to the entire test collection I prepared for the 803 session and it made feel like I was cheating and now being glad I got away with it. It got late and my neighbours must hate me.
Bauer LS 3.0 - Ortofon 7.8N SPK - Octave RE320 - 220 Pro - DH Labs D-110 - Mutec MC-3+ USB - ROON ROCK NUC - Sbooster MKII - Technics 1200 MK2 w/ Quintet Blue
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#8
Confused - if you don't mind, what model were the JBL's you had before?
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#9
(24-Oct-2017, 18:04)Mr_Bill Wrote: Confused - if you don't mind, what model were the JBL's you had before?

They are Danish built JBL L100's.  See links below.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...5-Jbl-L100

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/s...This-Model

The photographs per the links are not my actual JBL's, but they are pictures of an identical model.

As a point of clarification, I need to correct what I posted earlier.  I stated "I used to have some late 90's vintage JBL's".  This is not true, I still have them!  More accurately, I used to use Danish built JBL's as my main two channel system speakers.  Currently they are in use as the main rear surrounds in a 7.1 system.  I don't think I will ever sell them, I'll probably use them until they disintegrate, assuming I don't disintegrate first.  It occurs to me that I have never tried them with the Devialet amp, I really must try this some time.
1000 Pro - KEF Blade - iFi Zen Stream - Mutec REF10 - MC3+USB - Pro-Ject Signature 12
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#10
I took my Od'A to a mate who owns the previous generation 802d and found the bass lacking in definition. It was there but just didn't sound like music. I blamed the setup (close to the wall) but now I'm starting to wonder
                                                    Lifetime Roon, Mac mini, int. SSD, ext. HDD, tv as monitor, key board and track pad on bean bag as remote,Devialet 200, Od'A #097, Blue jeans speaker cable,                                     
                                                                                                                                                                            Dynaudio C1 MkII.
                                                                                                                                                                              Jim Smith's GBS.
                                                                                                                                                                        Northern NSW Australia.
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