Considering Devialet 220: phono and bass questions

[Peter Ward]

Hello all!

I've currently got a Lavardin IT, which I bought to replace some valve amps about 14 years ago. I have recently upgraded my Martin Logan Ascents to ESL-Xs, and use them with a REL Studio mk1 sub.

Having played in an orchestra for many years and enjoying live music, I look for a natural sound, not too bright, and I want to hear the double basses and bass drums in orchestras and the deep bass which is integral to modern music.

I've read Devialet reviews and feel a 220 might be a good upgrade. However, to make most sense I would love to replace my phono amp and eliminate my REL. So a couple of questions, please:

1. My cartridge is Hana ML and the phono amp is Cyrus Phono Signature with ESX-R2. What are your views on whether the 220's phono stage is as good as or better than the Cyrus? Has anyone made that move?

2. With SAM, could I remove the need for the REL? That is, can I configure it to extend the frequency response of the ESL-Xs down to c.20Hz while retaining the dynamics of the bass? I don't think I can hear all the way down now so maybe 20Hz is not essential, but I don't want to be stuck with a -3dB point of 41Hz as they are "naturally". My wife would love to get rid of the huge heavy box sitting in the lounge! Has anyone got experience of Devialet with ESL-Xs?

Many thanks in advance for your help and advice.

Peter

[thumb5]

Hello Peter,

Welcome to the forum, and good to hear from someone in my neck of the woods!

While I can't answer your questions definitively, I can make some comments which I hope will be helpful.

The Devialet phono stage is generally very good, but some people find that with low-output MC cartridges there is too much noise for their taste.  There are several threads here which touch on this topic, for example:

• https://devialetchat.com/Thread-very-noisy-phono-stage
  
• https://devialetchat.com/Thread-Phono-st...asurements
  

There is some evidence that the amount of noise varies between units but it's hard to be sure.

As you can see from the second thread, there has been some to-and-fro with Devialet to see whether this is due to a fault, but nothing conclusive came of it; I get the impression it's probably working within design parameters.

If you have an opportunity to try the Devialet with your Hana ML, that would obviously allow you to judge whether or not noise could be a concern.  (For what it's worth, when I replaced my cartridge recently I chose a Hana MH rather than ML just to be on the safe side; I must say the MH sounds excellent.)

Another solution some people have used is to add a step-up transformer, but to me that flies against the "one-box" principle of the Devialet.

I see the Martin Logan ESL-X have quite a low impedance (1.6 ohms) at 20 kHz.  That could mean they're not a great match for a 220, because its ability to deliver current tails off towards higher frequencies; this is a not very well-documented "feature" of the Devialet ADH design.  However, the fact that they have a SAM profile is reassuring.  Whether SAM would give you enough bass to get rid of a sub-woofer is again rather a matter of taste.

In short, I think it's a case of try it and see.  I appreciate that may not be a very helpful answer, but if it's not possible for you to arrange a demonstration which would help answer those questions, I'd be happy to meet up and try hooking up one of my 250s in your system if you like.

Ian

[tom539]

Dear Peter,

for MM cartridges, I would personally stay with the Devialet's phono input.

For MC systems, such as your Hana ML, an external solution is much better in terms of sound, because the MC input is simply too noisy.

And your Cyrus Signature plays at a much higher level, especially with the SX power supply - in my opinion, you are taking a noticeable step backwards with the MC input of the Devialet.

I myself have been using an external phono (AudioSpecials Phonolab) with my D440 for many years and am very satisfied with the solution (despite additional AD conversion in the Devialet).

atb, Tom

[Peter Ward]

Ian and Tom,

I really appreciate your swift replies. Thank you for your valuable thoughts. I don't have to change my Lavardin - it's working well despite being perhaps 20 years old. The idea of a simple high-quality one-box solution is very appealing, though.

I think the next step would be to hear one in my system, and your offer, Ian, is very generous. Could I please pick this up with you after Easter?

[thumb5]

Hello Peter - yes, of course. Please PM me when you'd ready.

[Peter Ward]

Many thanks to Ian who brought his 250 round this afternoon.

What did we find?

1. The Devialet is much cleaner than the Lavardin, while still being sweet and musical, but I would say less dynamic. I thought it might sound mechanical after the Lavardin but it doesn't
2. Its deep bass is very good with SAM enabled, but not quite in the same league as the Lavardin with my REL Studio
3. The phono input is good, not noticeably worse than my Cyrus Signature. I hear hiss at high volumes but it wouldn't be audible above the music and I've had valve phono amps that were noisier.
4. I wouldn't swap just for the amp's performance. It's different but not comprehensively better
5. Nevertheless, my wife is very attracted by the opportunity to reduce the box count: phono amp, subwoofer, and mount the amp on the wall.

I've been online looking for comparisons between 220 and the 250 I heard today. There are few comments but in general it seems the 250 is considered better than the 220. Not surprising considering the difference in list price. Given my experience this afternoon, I would expect a 220 to be a step backwards.

So it seems I'm probably looking for a s/h 250 pro ci rather than 220 pro c/i.

Thanks again, Ian!

[thumb5]

A good summary, Peter; I'm glad you found it a helpful couple of hours. It was fun for me too, and thanks for introducing me to some new music.

[chrisc]

I'm using ML Electromotion and find a REL sub essential. The MLs are said to go down to 40Hz but realistically there is not much audible signal there

The MLs are an upgrade from a set of planar speakers. At first I thought the ML's lackled sparkle, but after a while realised they are much more accurate and realistic

My main listening is to classical music

2 years back I changed to a 440Pro CI (2 x 220 pros). The improvement was immediate

[DelaneyB]

Hi Peter,
I had a 250 for a decade, then moved to a Naim 4 box system. The 250 is a very good one box solution and the phono stage is excellent. For what it does I still don't think there's better. A 250 PRO is one box but 2 x 220 is two, so I agree a 250 is what you want. There are some good deals about in used Devialet. FYI I had to get an external phono stage for my Naim NSC222 as the built in MM phono stage was very much inferior to the one in the D250.