Could Phamtom work as a sub with a D Premier?

[Unclemonty]

Hi - could any Phantom owners please enlighten me about the eventual possibility of using a Phantom as a subwoofer, with a D Premier configured with a sub output?

I'm unsure of what, if any, analogue inputs the Phantom has, and whether volume control and input switching (for the Phantom) would work properly alongside the Expert remote commands.

Thanks in advance!

[EvPa]

There are no analog inputs, either on the Phantoms or on the Dialog module, only optical (one on every phantom and another one the the Dialog) and network ones plus a USB port that will be used to link a Dialog and one of Devialet's amplifiers (basically to use the Dialog as a streamer).

However, some Devialet dealers have been talking about a different Dialog, including analogue phono and line-level inputs but I have not heard anything directly from Devialet (maybe someone else here?). Apparently this would be released around the end of this year.

[streamy]

I'm not an owner of an expert system, only of 2 Phantoms. However, the Phantom conceptually works only with digital sources, and therefore introduces delays when sending signals over PCL, Ethernet, or Toslink. As such it will be very difficult to guarantee no or minimal delays between two independent systems. I tested Toslink input to Phantom in parallel with my old analog system and a slight echo can be heard between the two systems. The delay is small enough to sync video with audio, i.e. to use the Phantoms for watching movies, but not for synchronized audio reproduction. And I guess as owner of an expert system you would not accept phase shifts (constant or more likely even dynamically changing) in your acustic reproduction. With a Phantom as subwoofer let's say with a cut-off frequency of 100 Hz you could maybe tolerate a delay of 1ms, but not as an audiophile. And from the echo I got I guess that the delay that Phantom is generating is about 50-100ms when using the Toslink input from a Phantom. In my test the signal went from Phantom. to Dialog and then back to both Phantoms. I did not try and do not know if a single Phantom (without Dialog) produces less delays.

[Phs]

Fully agree with @streamy about the delay issue that would ruin any attempt to build such a multiway system.
I would add that in my opinion the delay on the Toslink input of Phantom is already too big - probably due to the internal DSP - which makes movies soundtrack being visibly out of sync.
As a comparison the delay I had before using the Toslink input of Monitor Audio A100 amp was way smaller.

[fgueho]

With an AV receiver (in front of the phantoms and other external speakers), is it the same problem?
Does it means it is not possible to have 2 front phantoms and 2 rears speakers (of any other brand)?

[JohnnySix]

It is quite conceivable that an A/V system can be prodded and poked to compensate for such delays. For instance, the speaker distances can be specified to simulate the rears being three times closer (say) than the fronts, so that the amp will delay their signal to match the latency of the sound from the Phantom. It would of course require manual balancing by ear.

I'm hoping to investigate A/V integration workarounds when I get mine within the next week (supposedly).

[JohnnySix]

HMM, QUICK MATH: Sound travels about 33 metres in 0.1 sec. Regular A/V amps may not be able to compensate! But a computer running JRiver Media Center might... I'm relying on it!

[streamy]

Correct, but only under assumption the delay stays or is kept constant. normally streaming works with sending packages with different length and size. So the delay changes depending on the quality of the e.g. Wlan bandwith availability due to neighbour usage of the same channel. So compensation of a variable delay is not straight forward. There are some technolgies that claim to guarantee constant delays, e.g. (http://blog.imgtec.com/ensigma-communica...isation-ip), but what is Devialet using? We have no clue.

[Unclemonty]

Thanks for the responses - sounds like a total non starter then!

[Rodney Gold]

The fact they go down to 16hz does not make them subs per se.. one would have to check what level bass under 30hz or so can be reproduced.. if you are looking for loud in the very low bass , then a dedicated sub might well be the answer and the phantoms might not. For Eu2000 , you can get a pretty serious sub like a SB13 ultra

I would also like to have variable digital out on my d prem so as to use my miniDSP 4x10 to control the 2 subs I have rather than send the 4x10 an analog signal (which is then digitised , DSP bass eq done and than DA'ed)
I cant see a way of configuring that.