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Decoder or render.setting phantom in audirvana and roon
#11
I do not use Audirvana, so cannot comment on the questions there, but I have noticed a few misconceptions in the posts here regarding MQA, which relate directly to MQA use with Devialet.

Firstly, to get the "benefit" from MQA, it is the first "unfold" that is important.  As has been mentioned in this thread, this can be done in software, such as Audirvana, Roon, the Tidal app etc.

The first unfold matters, as this extracts additional audio data versus uncorded MQA. 

The second "unfold" does not extract any additional data.  The second unfold is nothing more than upsampling in the DAC, and the addition of an MQA filter.  This point is interesting.  After all, if you run a Devialet, it will upsample all digital inputs to 24/192 anyway, so you could argue that Devialet products implement a "second unfold" irrespective of what file formats you are playing.  Also, there was lots of marketing stuff about the MQA second unfold improving time domain performance and "deblurring" the audio signal.  These MQA filters have been analysed and reverse engineered, it turns out that they are simply fairly conventional minimum phase filters.  Such filters may help timing a little, but they also suffer from aliasing and other issues.  This is little different to running Roon or HQPlayer and selecting different filters per taste or what suits your system.  Indeed, we discussed MQA with Devialet at the Oxford Audio event last year, the view from Matieau Pernot seemed to be that the imposed MQA filters would not play well with Devialet ADH.  Frankly, the second unfold is a bit of a con, if you have an MQA DAC, you could feed it the unfolded 24/96 signal, your DAC upsaples to 24/192, DXD or whatever, and proudly displays a blue light and DXD in the display, but you still only really have 24/96, in fact you have lossy 24/96, rather than full lossless 24/96 that you would get with hi res FLAC.  Very naughty.

So, if you want to play MQA with a Devialet, use software decoding for the "first unfold", do not worry about the second unfold, you Devialet is upsampling, and you do not want the MQA filter with ADH anyway. 

As another tip, if you wanted to take MQA to the max with a Devialet, you could use Roon to perform the first unfold.  Then run Roon with HQPlayer.  HQPlayer could be used to upsample, and HQPlayer also has some filters that are optimised for use with MQA.  This is arguably the ultimate way to run MQA with a Devialet, but you will need another box, an NAA endpoint or similar, because a Devialet is not HQPlayer completable.  Something like a NUC, microRendu or similar could be used.

If that all sounds a little too complicated, you could just run 24/96 FLAC, which is lossless and does not suffer from MQA's confusion and complexity, stop worrying about MQA and enjoy a tune or two.

I do have a little sympathy with those who want to use MQA, there is plenty of anecdotal evidence that some of the Tidal MQA content sounds better than other releases, but this appears to be because different masters are used, rather than because of MQA itself.  That said, some have reported that some MQA versions sound worse, so it is a bit of a lottery and perhaps a case of personal preference.

As for the third unfold, it does not exist.  Or maybe it does?  If it does exist, it is just something in the upsampling and MQA filter I described above and some MQA marketing speak, there is no actual unfold that retrieves audio data or does anything else for that matter.  It is a similar concept the Lock Ness monster or Bigfoot, great for scary late night stories and getting the tourists in and parting with cash, but it does not really exist.  I suspect the third unfold actually takes place in an Audiophiles wallet, as the bank notes are removed to pay for the latest MQA DAC.
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#12
That's probably not a bad analysis. Like you, I'd rather have lossless 24/96 than MQA's version of 24/96 but, having said that, I do think that having Roon do the first unfold on a Tidal MQA stream does sound slightly better than Tidal's 16/44.1 lossless CD quality streams. Until Qobuz comes to Australia and I can get lossless 24/96 streaming, I'm stuck with Tidal's MQA version of 24/96 but if Qobuz comes to Australia at a reasonable price I suspect I'll be jumping from Tidal to Qobuz very quickly and forgetting about MQA entirely, apart from the single album I've bought as a download which came with MQA coding.
Roon Nucleus+, Devilalet Expert 140 Pro CI, Focal Sopra 2, PS Audio P12, Keces P8 LPS, Uptone Audio EtherREGEN with optical fibre link to my router, Shunyata Alpha NR and Sigma NR power cables, Shunyata Sigma ethernet cables, Shunyata Alpha V2 speaker cables, Grand Prix Audio Monaco rack, RealTRAPS acoustic treatment.

Brisbane, Qld, Australia
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#13
Thanks @Confused. I thought I was beginning to understand MQA but I guess I have more homework to do.

A question about the Phantoms upsampling the incoming audio to 24/192 before conversion. I know the Expert does this but does the Phantom? I am not so sure.

Anyway, thanks for the input. Food for thought.




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#14
Like the Expert Pro range, the Phantoms will upsample incoming signals to the maximum resolution their DAC can handle. I don't know what the top resolution for the Phantoms is but whatever it is, incoming signals will automatically be upsampled to it without you needing to do anything.
Roon Nucleus+, Devilalet Expert 140 Pro CI, Focal Sopra 2, PS Audio P12, Keces P8 LPS, Uptone Audio EtherREGEN with optical fibre link to my router, Shunyata Alpha NR and Sigma NR power cables, Shunyata Sigma ethernet cables, Shunyata Alpha V2 speaker cables, Grand Prix Audio Monaco rack, RealTRAPS acoustic treatment.

Brisbane, Qld, Australia
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#15
(25-Jan-2020, 23:54)David A Wrote: Like the Expert Pro range, the Phantoms will upsample incoming signals to the maximum resolution their DAC can handle. I don't know what the top resolution for the Phantoms is but whatever it is, incoming signals will  automatically be upsampled to it without you needing to do anything.

Thank you @David A.  I don't doubt that you are both right and of course it would make perfect sense that the digital architecture in the Phantom be similar to that of the Expert line.  However, I couldn't find this information in either official material from Devialet or a credible 3rd party source.  Do you remember where you saw it?
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