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Devialet 120
#21
I've been reading the adventures of others, and what has helped.

As I understand, hum is a symptom of a ground loop or too little shielding. The "flutter" is neither of these ... which is interesting as hum is the typical complaint of those with low output MC cartridges into a Devialet.

EMI/RFI? Keep in mind that there has not been a flutter issue with two other amps, with positioning and speakers and associated equipment held constant. Still, there is a TV close by as well as a Mesh receiver (into which the TV and Cambridge streamer are linked). The Devialet is not connected by cable as this is not needed, given the streamer. Well, I moved the mesh a metre further away from the turntable. The flutter remains, but does seem a few points less. I could be mistaken as it is so soft.

Two questions:

1. One person reported that what helped them was to use a subsonic filter. This was not with a Devialet amp. As far as I am aware, the Expert 120 does not have a subsonic filter .. or does it? Or, I could play around with the start up curve settings. I have been on RIAA 1976. Would one of the other curves filter the low bass?

I might add that the flutter does not occur with the KC62 subwoofer.

2. The flutter is so mild that it, for intents and purposes, is not intrusive and very easy to ignore. The main reason I have been chasing a solution is that I am concerned that some damage may occur to the speakers. I would just ignore the flutter if reassured that no damage will result. Opinions here?

Thanks again for all the input.

Regards from Perth

Derek
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#22
There is a subsonic filter. You can configure it to be permanently on in the Configurator but in order to check whether or not it will help, it is possible to turn it on and off manually with your remote.

Press the tone control button on the remote (bottom right button) several times to cycle through the balance/bass/treble/SAM options and you will come to a list of options in the window on the top of your amp. As you keep pressing the tone control button you will move down that list. One of the options is "Subsonic". Turning the remote dial to the right turns it on, turning the dial to the left turns it off. Turn it on and exit the tone controls (long press on the tone control button). See if the problem goes away. If it doesn't, and if you don't like the sound with the subsonic filter on, you can always turn it off again by going through the procedure above again.

If you want to have the subsonic filter always turned on then you're going to have to turn it on in the configurator by making a new configuration file. There's a group of general settings you can select in the configurator and the subsonic filter is one of the options in it. The default setting for the filter is off and if you have it set to off then turning it on via the amp's menu settings only turns the filter on until you turn the amp off. When you next turn the amp on and the configuration file loads again the setting in the configuration file which by default is off will again be applied. If you want the filter always on, you need to change the setting in the configuration file by making a new configuration.
Roon Nucleus+, Devilalet Expert 140 Pro CI, Focal Sopra 2, PS Audio P12, Keces P8 LPS, Uptone Audio EtherREGEN with optical fibre link to my router, Shunyata Alpha NR and Sigma NR power cables, Shunyata Sigma ethernet cables, Shunyata Alpha V2 speaker cables, Grand Prix Audio Monaco rack, RealTRAPS acoustic treatment.

Brisbane, Qld, Australia
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#23
(01-Jan-2022, 14:44)derekcohen Wrote: The main reason I have been chasing a solution is that I am concerned that some damage may occur to the speakers. I would just ignore the flutter if reassured that no damage will result. Opinions here?

If you can barely hear the noise it poses no risk for your speakers. If the noise had piercing treble (hiss) you might think that the noise was even stronger in the range above your hearing and could overload the tweeter. From your description there is no treble in the noise so no danger IMHO.
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Devialetless!
Roon, ROCK/Audiolense XO/Music on NAS/EtherRegen/RoPieee/USPCB/ISORegen/USPCB/Sound Devices USBPre2/Tannoy GOLD 8
250 Pro CI, MicroRendu(1.4), Mutec MC-3+USB
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#24
(01-Jan-2022, 21:00)ogs Wrote:
(01-Jan-2022, 14:44)derekcohen Wrote: The main reason I have been chasing a solution is that I am concerned that some damage may occur to the speakers. I would just ignore the flutter if reassured that no damage will result. Opinions here?

If you can barely hear the noise it poses no risk for your speakers. If the noise had piercing treble (hiss) you might think that the noise was even stronger in the range above your hearing and could overload the tweeter. From your description there is no treble in the noise so no danger IMHO.

Thank you!

Regards from Perth

Derek
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#25
(01-Jan-2022, 20:26)David A Wrote: There is a subsonic filter. You can configure it to be permanently on in the Configurator but in order to check whether or not it will help, it is possible to turn it on and off manually with your remote.

Press the tone control button on the remote (bottom right button) several times to cycle through the balance/bass/treble/SAM options and you will come to a list of options in the window on the top of your amp. As you keep pressing the tone control button you will move down that list. One of the options is "Subsonic". Turning the remote dial to the right turns it on, turning the dial to the left turns it off. Turn it on and exit the tone controls (long press on the tone control button). See if the problem goes away. If it doesn't, and if you don't like the sound with the subsonic filter on, you can always turn it off  again by going through the procedure above again.

If you want to have the subsonic filter always turned on then you're going to have to turn it on in the configurator by making a new configuration file. There's a group of general settings you can select in the configurator and the subsonic filter is one of the options in it. The default setting for the filter is off and if you have it set to off then turning it on via the amp's menu settings only turns the filter on until you turn the amp off. When you next turn the amp on and the configuration file loads again the setting in the configuration file which by default is off will again be applied. If you want the filter always on, you need to change the setting in the configuration file by making a new configuration.

Many thanks for the detail.

I went through the tone control button, but could not find the option for "subsonic". As a result, I changed the settings in the Configurator, downloaded the file to a SD card, and loaded the new configuration. Having Subsonic off made no difference. This appears to me - logically speaking - to indicate that the flutter is not due to extra bass feeding in. 

I guess that the possibility of EMI/RFI and the Supex may still be a factor. I will try with a well-shielded cable (waiting for this), and if it does not make a difference, then just live with it.

One more thing: I am still using 7.1.1 as the Expert 120 came with it. How do I change to (say) 7.1.3 or 8.0? Do I simply copy the file to the SD card (along with the configuration file)? 

Regards from Perth

Derek
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#26
Copy the contents of the ZIP archive (17 or 18 files I think) to an empty SD card. Write protect it. No configuration file. Re-start (remove and insert power plug) the amp with the SD card inserted. You'll see the progress in the display. Takes 2-3 minutes to load a new firmware. You can go up and down in FW versions without problems.
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Devialetless!
Roon, ROCK/Audiolense XO/Music on NAS/EtherRegen/RoPieee/USPCB/ISORegen/USPCB/Sound Devices USBPre2/Tannoy GOLD 8
250 Pro CI, MicroRendu(1.4), Mutec MC-3+USB
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#27
Thanks!

Regards from Perth

Derek
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#28
SUCCESS!! There is silence! 😀

What I did was to switch off "Auto WiFi Standby" on the Configurator. I did try this once before, but it did not work then. What I ensured this time, via the iPhone App, was that Phono was switched off. This worked.

This was confirmed by Devialet, who emailed me:

This noise comes from the WiFi module emitting full power while scanning for available networks, causing RF pollution on the phono stage

The flutter sound will not damage the speaker (if it's caused by the wifi issue). 


I have also changed the Firmware from 7.1.1 to 7.1.3, and all remains well. It will be interesting to discover which Firmware I prefer. Can anyone say in what way they differ?

Regards from Perth

Derek
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#29
For me it was 7.1.3 for a long time. Wonderful midrange, a little 'loose' in the bass and sometimes a bit grainy in the treble. I noticed bass and treble sound only on some albums.

In the end I preferred fw 10.1.0. Lost a little of the midrange magic, but gained in detail and bottom to top coherence. This was on a D-Premier/240/250 so not necessarily valid for the 120. As it is quite easy to change firmware you should try several and see what you think.
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Devialetless!
Roon, ROCK/Audiolense XO/Music on NAS/EtherRegen/RoPieee/USPCB/ISORegen/USPCB/Sound Devices USBPre2/Tannoy GOLD 8
250 Pro CI, MicroRendu(1.4), Mutec MC-3+USB
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#30
Hey Derek!

I'm still a fan of 7.1.3. As I described it in the topic below:

Fell in love with 7.1.3 right away: the airiness, the huge soundstage and so much more musicality and warmth in the mids. Silksmooth highs. Not a hint of harshness, but crystal clear at the same time. Magical!

You might wanna dig into this ancient topic: New beta firmware 7.1.3 released

Enjoy your 120!
Devialet Expert 200 (FW 7.1.3) / Magnepan 1.7i / Rel T5 / Foobar (WASAPI event 24bit) / AIR 3.0.1 public beta (best Air 3.x.x SQ by far)
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