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Expert Pro sound quality
My take is that upgrades will continue to be available after Dec 31. But... the "recent buyer" upgrade discount will end on Dec 25.

The streaming board is a mystery (to us, hopefully not to them). If it is ground-breaking, it's hard to imagine it remaining just an add-on option so I'd expect a more expensive Pro once the streaming board is released. What I can't quite figure out is why they're keeping it such a mystery.
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(09-Nov-2016, 14:04)mdconnelly Wrote: ...
What I can't quite figure out is why they're keeping it such a mystery.

Haha, I can!

>>> 1st Place Award: Devialet, last decades most disappointing technology purchase.  <<<

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(09-Nov-2016, 14:11)Hifi_swlon Wrote:
(09-Nov-2016, 14:04)mdconnelly Wrote: ...
What I can't quite figure out is why they're keeping it such a mystery.

Haha, I can!


You're mean, Swlon... ;-)


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It's been a bit quiet on here lately so thought I'd add a few notes after a week or so with the 250pro.

I only had a day between the 200 going and 250 arriving so the sound was very fresh and I'd kept an active playlist going to make the job easier. I made some notes as I went because I'm interested in the process of listening to something new and the sensations. Er, no, not like that.

Anyway! I shouldn't start on day 1 because I hated it! The unit was physically cold and I couldn't play loud - maybe both made a difference - but it was thin and 'edgy'. I could definitely hear more bass texture, and more detail overall - most noticeable to me in the treble - but overall it was completely underwhelming, maybe I was just subconsciously expecting more.

Things didn't stay that way though and I felt (imagined or otherwise) waves of up and down and now feel it's more stable.

The first thing that was obvious on day 2 was bass impact. I'd never heard my facts in my room do electronics beats that hit home with impact - and certainly not with the 200. With the 250pro this completely changed and even at relatively low volume the bass 'slam' is addictive. To be honest it's what I expected from the 200 with all its hype, and I'm sorry to say I can now conclusively say I don't think the 200 is that great. The 'impact' isn't limited to bass but it's the one aspect that's won me over and would be the most likely to keep me with Devialet.

Now I was running f/w 7.x on my 200 most recently, so firmware could account for something, but I had run 9.x and then 10.x for quite a while and I never had the bass impact. Far from it, I actually had less bass 'weight' with the more recent firmwares, which is one reason why I went back to 7.

Beyond bass, overall the same things that have been repeated already - more detail, more texture, more exciting without being so fatiguing, better soundstage - all of these traits much more so at volume but still there at lower volume.

If there are SQ criticisms so far it's that in my setup, where things are on the bright side, this can be exaggerated further by the pro. Not only that, there's quite a bit of music where the increased resolution - primarily in the treble (to keep things simple) - has actually 'pitched up' and thinned out quite a few tracks I really know well. Where one 'note' if you like used to have weight and sit around frequency X, on the pro the same note is now made up of its constituent parts which is much better resolved but the overall experience to me is actually a pitch change to something brighter, hovering around frequency X plus a bit. Hard to explain, you may or may not get what I'm saying. Anyway, it means some things I was very used to don't sound the same anymore, but quite different. Sometimes that's really nice, sometimes not.

When played loud the Pro shines, in fact I had to stop myself going louder, knowing I could hurt my ears. It sounds great with the right material (in my case things that were less bright in the first place). I mean it can put a big smile on your face! Loud on the 200 often meant a headache inducing edgy mess, not so here.

I'm skipping most of my notes as I haven't got time, but in essence, so far, it's a lot better. The detail resolution in the treble and the thin-ness this can bring might (will if things stay as they are) need some fine tuning.

Volume levels seem very similar to the 200; but oddly sometimes the same level seems quieter, sometimes a bit louder. SAM settings seem to be quite different to what I was used to with f/w 7, tone settings seem similar, if anything I'm winding treble down more. I changed speaker toe-in slightly.

All in all I'm happy, let's see how things are after longer term, maybe the novelty wears off? Things also seem variable from day to day, as did the 200, so whether this is burn-in, power fluctuation or psychoacoustic I don't know, and maybe never will - unless it settles to a constant I guess.

Is it worth £3K? I'd say it depends what you think of your current setup and what you enjoy about music. I never felt the bass was right with the 200, and found the sound fatiguing. Both are a lot better so that makes a big difference. I jumped 200>250 so not sure how much extra difference that made if any. Would I have been happy if I'd bought one new at £12k? I'm not sure, I don't think my room/speakers are optimal for something at this level.

Edited to add there's a reassuring audible 'pop' from the speakers [when powering off] which I had with other amps but not from the 200.
Oh, and that damn chattering noise from the PSU is gone!! Ok maybe it is worth three grand.

Hopefully there'll be some more comments coming soon. It would definitely be nice to read more about SQ and less about UPS logistics..... Wink

>>> 1st Place Award: Devialet, last decades most disappointing technology purchase.  <<<

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(15-Nov-2016, 22:41)Hifi_swlon Wrote: It's been a bit quiet on here lately so thought I'd add a few notes after a week or so with the 250pro.

I only had a day between the 200 going and 250 arriving so the sound was very fresh and I'd kept an active playlist going to make the job easier. I made some notes as I went because I'm interested in the process of listening to something new and the sensations. Er, no, not like that.

Anyway!  I won't start on day 1 because I hated it! The unit was physically cold and I couldn't play loud - maybe both made a difference - but it was thin and 'edgy'. I could definitely hear more bass texture, and more detail overall - most noticeable to me in the treble - but overall it was completely underwhelming, maybe I was just subconsciously expecting more.

Things didn't stay that way though and I felt (imagined or otherwise) waves of up and down and now feel it's more stable.

The first thing that was obvious on day 2 was bass impact. I'd never heard my facts in my room do electronics beats that hit home with impact - and certainly not with the 200. With the 250pro this completely changed and even at relatively low volume the bass 'slam' is addictive. To be honest it's what I expected from the 200 with all its hype, and I'm sorry to say I can now conclusively say I don't think the 200 is that great. The 'impact' isn't limited to bass but it's the one aspect that's won me over and would be the most likely to keep me with Devialet.

Now I was running f/w 7.x on my 200 most recently, so firmware could account for something, but I had run 9.x and then 10.x for quite a while and I never had the bass impact. Far from it, I actually had less bass 'weight' with the more recent firmwares, which is one reason why I went back to 7.

Beyond bass, overall the same things that have been repeated already - more detail, more texture, more exciting without being so fatiguing, better soundstage - all of these traits much more so at volume but still there at lower volume.

If there are SQ criticisms so far it's that in my setup, where things are on the bright side, this can be exaggerated further by the pro. Not only that, there's quite a bit of music where the increased resolution - primarily in the treble (to keep things simple) - has actually 'pitched up' and thinned out quite a few tracks I really know well. Where one 'note' if you like used to have weight and sit around frequency X, on the pro the same note is now made up of its constituent parts which is much better resolved but the overall experience to me is actually a pitch change to something brighter, hovering around frequency X plus a bit. Hard to explain, you may or may not get what I'm saying. Anyway, it means some things I was very used to don't sound the same anymore, but quite different. Sometimes that's really nice, sometimes not.

When played loud the Pro shines, in fact I had to stop myself going louder, knowing I could hurt my ears. It sounds great with the right material (in my case things that were less bright in the first place). I mean it can put a big smile on your face! Loud on the 200 often meant a headache inducing edgy mess, not so here.

I'm skipping most of my notes as I haven't got time, but in essence, so far, it's a lot better. The detail resolution in the treble and the thin-ness this can bring might (will if things stay as they are) need some fine tuning.

Volume levels seem very similar to the 200; but oddly sometimes the same level seems quieter, sometimes a bit louder. SAM settings seem to be quite different to what I was used to with f/w 7, tone settings seem similar, if anything I'm winding treble down more. I changed speaker toe-in slightly.

All in all I'm happy, let's see how things are after longer term, maybe the novelty wears off? Things also seem variable from day to day, as did the 200, so whether this is burn-in, power fluctuation or psychoacoustic I don't know, and maybe never will - unless it settles to a constant I guess.

Is it worth £3K? I'd say it depends what you think of your current setup and what you enjoy about music. I never felt the bass was right with the 200, and found the sound fatiguing. Both are a lot better so that makes a big difference. I jumped 200>250 so not sure how much extra difference that made if any. Would I have been happy if I'd bought one new at £12k? I'm not sure, I don't think my room/speakers are optimal for something at this level.

Edited to add there's a reassuring audible 'pop' from the speakers which I had with other amps but not from the 200.
Oh, and that damn chattering noise from the PSU is gone!! Ok maybe it is worth three grand.

Hopefully there'll be some more comments coming soon. It would definitely be nice to read more about SQ and less about UPS logistics..... Wink

When you say you hear a "pop" from your speakers, is this at switch on, or off? I hear a very slight "tic" through the speakers when I turn off. The 400 never used to do this.
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Yes I meant when turning off (or to standby I should say)

>>> 1st Place Award: Devialet, last decades most disappointing technology purchase.  <<<

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(16-Nov-2016, 07:57)Hifi_swlon Wrote: Yes I meant when turning off (or to standby I should say)

They kicked the Power-Filter-Riser-Board out and have a new Power-Filter added on the mainbord with bigger parts. I think the power supply can suck more and 'faster' current (fuses are now 10A, 6A before) from the powerline than before hence the big improvement in bass reproduction and perhaps as a letdown (newly designed filter) causes the 'Pop'. My D200 improved the same with the extraction of the Filter-IEC.

For SQ
With the new technologies they achieved with the ADH etc. would likely make the PRO's more transparent but on the other hand more open to interferences.
If now there is an edge in any music you have to find the culprit for this. For my experience with the old D's it's not the D to be accused. Quality of power is the first, quality of your source the second.

But you've to be patient for at least 200h burn in. It'll be more accurate to judge after burn in.

gui
"Oh, you can buy the other. But then it is a cost intensive learning process"
berlin
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I have got him back and it takes three weeks. At first i was schocked about the condition of the 250 pro. The wheel of the remote has a scratch and the backkcover a dent. I made a ticket to Devialet. Since three weeks i'm waiting for an answer.
So what about the SQ. First the Pros: deeper and more controlled bass, more details, wider soundstage, all also at lower volumes.
But there are also disappointing experiences. Voices, especially female voices lost the magic. I heard song after song and and i don't feel touched. It sounded clear with a beautiful bass and soundstage, but my D-Premier had a magic in voices that the 250 pro can't deliver. I tried Anna Calvi, Ben Caplan, Bill Fay, Bon Iver, Joni Mitchell, Sara K, James Taylor, Joana Newsom, Natalie Merchant, Leonard Cohen and so on, but no real feelings. I miss the warm character of my Premier, but no way back.
Three days ago i changed my setup. I moved my speakers, i changed the digital input from aes to cinch and used sam in different percent. Now i got better high frequencies, to much bass, 3 d sounstage but still no emotions like i had before. I don't feel satisfied with hardware and sound.
Sorry for this, but it's the sad truth. I'm thinking about a change to Accuphase or Mcintosh.


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Devialet 250 pro ci, Linn Akurate G-Hub Nr.15 with clock upgrade, Linn G-Sneaky No.6, Pro-ject Perspektive Anniversary, Harbeth SHL5Plus, Synology DS218+, two subwoofer Canton 50k, Audioquest cable, Kimber Cable 12tc.

Germany.
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(16-Nov-2016, 15:43)4tLotM Wrote: I have got him back and it takes three weeks. At first i was schocked about the condition of the 250 pro. The wheel of the remote has a scratch and the backkcover a dent. I made a ticket to Devialet. Since three weeks i'm waiting for an answer.
So what about the SQ. First the Pros: deeper and more controlled bass, more details, wider soundstage, all also at lower volumes.
But there are also disappointing experiences. Voices, especially female voices lost the  magic. I heard song after song and and i don't feel touched. It sounded clear with a beautiful bass and soundstage, but my D-Premier had a magic in voices that the 250 pro can't deliver. I tried Anna Calvi, Ben Caplan, Bill Fay, Bon Iver, Joni Mitchell, Sara K, James Taylor, Joana Newsom, Natalie Merchant, Leonard Cohen and so on, but no real feelings. I miss the warm character of my Premier, but no way back.
Three days ago i changed my setup. I moved my speakers, i changed the digital input from aes to cinch and used sam in different percent. Now i got better high frequencies, to much bass, 3 d sounstage but still no emotions like i had before. I don't feel satisfied with hardware and sound.
Sorry for this, but it's the sad truth. I'm thinking about a change to Accuphase or Mcintosh.

Thank you LotM for sharing. That is what I have been trying to say a few times. Please listen before deciding to upgrade. I did and came to the conclusion I should use the money to go double mono instead of using the money to upgrade to a single Pro. I expect and hope your 250 Pro may evolve still to close the gap between what you liked in the D-Premier and what the 250 Pro will eventually deliver. In my view the Pro really has a different sound to it and may be an improvement in some arias, but not necessary in all and for all tastes as some reviewers will have us all believe. This is not a one truth story and the verdict is very personal. Depending on both your setup (speakers, source), acoustics and your personal taste. I understand the enthousiasm involved in getting the upgrade, but the other truths needs to be said also afaic.
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And now we can't even cling onto burn-in to help us out, since Devialet told Confused it doesn't exist. Sad

>>> 1st Place Award: Devialet, last decades most disappointing technology purchase.  <<<

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