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General thoughts, cost/benefit of Roon Nucleus and Nucleus+
#11
(12-Feb-2019, 12:19)octaviars Wrote: @awkaplan have you considered building a Roon ROCK machine?  

https://kb.roonlabs.com/Roon_Optimized_Core_Kit

I run a NUC7i5BNH in a silent Akasa S7 case and that has worked flawless since I got it. I connect it to a switch and from that switch to my endpoint.

I stream both Tidal and Qobuz.

It’s crossed my mind—thank you for the link.  That said, I’m to blame if something goes wrong.  Is it worth an extra $600 to be able to work with Roon support?  Or more if I go with an i7.
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#12
(12-Feb-2019, 12:16)David A Wrote:
(12-Feb-2019, 11:28)awkaplan Wrote:
(12-Feb-2019, 10:07)David A Wrote: I've never had a problem with Roon using ethernet from my server to my Devialet. That has worked flawlessly. I routinely stream DSD64 that way using Roon AIR but if I go to Devialet's site and l look at what they say about feeding DSD to the Devialet, they say that they don't recommend you use Devalet's AIR protocol for DSD because it can be unreliable. If ethernet was going to be a problem with Roon, I would expect DSD to show that problem up and it hasn't.

I have had problems with control. I control Roon from an iPad which communicates with my network over wifi. When I have problems they're wifi problem and I lose control but if I'm playing a record and there's tracks in the queue, the music keeps playing, Roon keeps streaming the data. Ethernet isn't where my problems occur, it's with the wifi connection from my iPad to the network.

You say ethernet via Roon is a "stuttering mess" but nothing else. If you want help or advice you have to tell us what's actually going wrong and saying it's a "stuttering mess" tells us nothing about what's going wrong. How are things connected (describe the wired connections and any wifi connections in the network path). When do the problems occur (during music playback, while you're performing control operations, when background operations are happening on your server and/or computer) and how do they manifest,and so on. Simply saying it's a "stuttering mess via Roon" gives us no information at all which would enable anyone to identify what the problems may be or come up with any suggestions which could help you.

Very good point about my Ethernet comment.  I had AT&T in because my unit is hardwired for CAT6.  They identified the cabling behind this metal panel, which simply hides the 5-6 leads coming from the CAT6 jacks, as well as the fiber connection point and CATV.  The installer identified the appropriate cable for the jack I wanted to use, using some sort of electronic tool.  Tonight, I plugged in that cable to Ethernet port 1 on my modem, and ran a CAT6 lead they left me to the Devialet from the wall.  I launched the configurator and made a profile disabling WiFi, loaded it up.  Roon recognized the Devialet and I was able to play tracks, but they would take ten or so seconds to load, and would cut in and out every few seconds.  I hope this all makes sense.

It was worse than any WiFi experience.  I’m not sure if it’s shoddy cabling and have no way right now of testing it out.  I could try another cable from the wall.  Ideally, I’d find a more powerful WiFi router that shows the actual strength of the connection to the Devialet.  Getting it to -45dBm would likely guarantee flawless playback, as it’s solid even up to 24/192 at -65dBm now.  I’ve been listening all day with almost flawless performance—a pop or drop here or there.

That describes the ethernet connection between your modem and the Devialet. It says nothing about the connection between Roon and your network but from your first post it seems that you're running Roon on a MacBook and that is connected to the network by wifi and you have mentioned wifi issues.


Since it seems that you're using the MacBook as your control for Roon, I'm going to suggest a different setup for you. Get a 5 port unmanaged ethernet network switch. Connect both your MacBook and your Devialet to it and connect it to your ethernet wall point. This is going to give you wired connections all the way and no need for a wifi connection. If that solves your problems then your problems aren't ethernet related, they're related to your wifi connection. Whatever the problem is, I think it's network related and using the switch to connect both Devialet and the MacBook to your network via a wired ethernet connection is the best network setup I can think of and definitely better than one which has that actual music being streamed over wifi for part of the signal path from MacBook to Devialet.

Perhaps I can get AT&T back out here.  Using iPhone primarily to control Roon.  Something has to be going on from my modem through the wiring in the wall to the Devialet to cause that performance issue.  Furthermore, I’d need a usb dongle for Ethernet.  If I can get the desk area wired as well as the issue solved with the Devialet-area outlet, that would be ideal.  But if the preexisting wiring is poor, I’m out of luck as the alternative is a mess of wires going across rooms.  I’m starting to think a wired NUC/Nucleus would take some pressure off the wireless router/modem, or a different wireless router, or both.  I just need to find the correct one with internal software that shows real-time dBm values.
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#13
(12-Feb-2019, 13:36)awkaplan Wrote: Perhaps I can get AT&T back out here.  Using iPhone primarily to control Roon.  Something has to be going on from my modem through the wiring in the wall to the Devialet to cause that performance issue.  Furthermore, I’d need a usb dongle for Ethernet.  If I can get the desk area wired as well as the issue solved with the Devialet-area outlet, that would be ideal.  But if the preexisting wiring is poor, I’m out of luck as the alternative is a mess of wires going across rooms.  I’m starting to think a wired NUC/Nucleus would take some pressure off the wireless router/modem, or a different wireless router, or both.  I just need to find the correct one with internal software that shows real-time dBm values.

It may be your in wall cabling but you say "Something has to be going on from my modem through the wiring in the wall to the Devialet to cause that performance issue". You're wrong.

Something MAY be going wrong between the modem and the Devialet but the signal path also has a section from your MacBook to your modem and the problem MAY be there. The problem can be with anything in the signal path between your MacBook and the Devialet and so far you've given no reason for discounting the MacBook to modem section of the signal path.

You seem to be jumping to one conclusion without any solid evidence but when it comes to problem solving network problems it's a lot better to start by eliminating possibilities one by one. If you start by being convinced that the problem is in one area and it isn't, you're going to keep running up against a brick wall checking and rechecking the area you're convinced is the problem and every time you recheck it is wasted time and effort which may well have found and solved the problem if you simply looked at each device and section of cabling one by one in order.
Roon Nucleus+, Devilalet Expert 140 Pro CI, Focal Sopra 2, PS Audio P12, Keces P8 LPS, Uptone Audio EtherREGEN with optical fibre link to my router, Shunyata Alpha NR and Sigma NR power cables, Shunyata Sigma ethernet cables, Shunyata Alpha V2 speaker cables, Grand Prix Audio Monaco rack, RealTRAPS acoustic treatment.

Brisbane, Qld, Australia
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#14
(12-Feb-2019, 22:50)David A Wrote:
(12-Feb-2019, 13:36)awkaplan Wrote: Perhaps I can get AT&T back out here.  Using iPhone primarily to control Roon.  Something has to be going on from my modem through the wiring in the wall to the Devialet to cause that performance issue.  Furthermore, I’d need a usb dongle for Ethernet.  If I can get the desk area wired as well as the issue solved with the Devialet-area outlet, that would be ideal.  But if the preexisting wiring is poor, I’m out of luck as the alternative is a mess of wires going across rooms.  I’m starting to think a wired NUC/Nucleus would take some pressure off the wireless router/modem, or a different wireless router, or both.  I just need to find the correct one with internal software that shows real-time dBm values.

It may be your in wall cabling but you say "Something has to be going on from my modem through the wiring in the wall to the Devialet to cause that performance issue". You're wrong.

Something MAY be going wrong between the modem and the Devialet but the signal path also has a section from your MacBook to your modem and the problem MAY be there. The problem can be with anything in the signal path between your MacBook and the Devialet and so far you've given no reason for discounting the MacBook to modem section of the signal path.

You seem to be jumping to one conclusion without any solid evidence but when it comes to problem solving network problems it's a lot better to start by eliminating possibilities one by one. If you start by being convinced that the problem is in one area and it isn't, you're going to keep running up against a brick wall checking and rechecking the area you're convinced is the problem and every time you recheck it is wasted time and effort which may well have found and solved the problem if you simply looked at each device and section of cabling one by one in order.

True, I came to that conclusion because running full WiFi is subjectively OK and objectively (transmit errors logged) fairly decent.  So if laptop -> modem works there, why would it become a problem once ethernet becomes involved?  Perhaps an issue with the switch in the modem?  It may take me a day, but I can post pictures of the distribution box, cables, as well as the jacks to give a better idea of what the ecosystem is like.  I'm surprised the ethernet wasn't just turnkey—this is a 2017 building.
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#15
See attached—this is the type of information I'd like to be able to get out of a higher-powered wireless router if I go the wireless route.  Trying to figure out if Ruckus provides this type of information. Note the Devialet at -65dBm.


Attached Files Thumbnail(s)
   
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#16
(12-Feb-2019, 12:19)octaviars Wrote: @awkaplan have you considered building a Roon ROCK machine?  

https://kb.roonlabs.com/Roon_Optimized_Core_Kit

I run a NUC7i5BNH in a silent Akasa S7 case and that has worked flawless since I got it. I connect it to a switch and from that switch to my endpoint.

I stream both Tidal and Qobuz.

I’ve been inspired.  I think I’m going to build an 8th-gen i3 NUC with 8gb of ram and a speedier m.2 SSD.  I’ll plug it directly into the router/modem to see how it takes the pressure off of the WiFi radio.  Also considering getting a Ruckus AP if this hardwire situation becomes too complex.
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#17
So I built the NUC running ROCK—very turnkey, had some issues getting the RAM seated properly but smooth otherwise.  Went for an 8th-gen i3.  Totally silent. 

As predicted, it took a major load off of my wireless network. Experiencing zero dropouts or aberrations now with the Devislet connected wirelessly over 5ghz.  I have the radio set aside exclusively for the Devialet.  The soundstage feels slightly less holographic.  It’s been suggested that I upgrade my ethernet cable—any suggestions?  I was told to get the Wireworld Starlight, but I don’t know how much of a difference it will make plugged into my modem/router.  Perhaps it just needs some time to burn in.  Any thoughts?
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#18
(16-Feb-2019, 15:33)awkaplan Wrote: So I built the NUC running ROCK—very turnkey, had some issues getting the RAM seated properly but smooth otherwise.  Went for an 8th-gen i3.  Totally silent. 

As predicted, it took a major load off of my wireless network. Experiencing zero dropouts or aberrations now with the Devislet connected wirelessly over 5ghz.  I have the radio set aside exclusively for the Devialet.  The soundstage feels slightly less holographic.  It’s been suggested that I upgrade my ethernet cable—any suggestions?  I was told to get the Wireworld Starlight, but I don’t know how much of a difference it will make plugged into my modem/router.  Perhaps it just needs some time to burn in.  Any thoughts?

Supra Cat8 have a good reputation. I use them myself and think they offer very good value for money. 
You can get them here if you’re in the U.K.  
https://www.futureshop.co.uk/brands-cate...les#page=1
Project Eperience X Pack with Ortofon Rondo Red MC, Oppo BDP 105D, 2 x Sonos Connect, QNAP HS251+ NAS with 2 X 6TB Western Digital Red, Mac 5K 32GB running Lifetime Roon, iPad Pro 12.9" for remote control.  Etalon Ethernet Isolator, Devialet 440 Pro CI, Sonus faber Olympica ll with Isoacoustics Gaia ll feet, Auralic Taurus Mkll headphone amp.Denon AH-D5000, Sennheiser HD600 and HD800 with Cardas cable,  Van Den Hul The First Ultimate and Crystal interconnects, Furutech power cables, GSP Audio Spatia speaker cable.
South Coast England
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#19
Sorry to chime in this late, but I was abroad.

I deliberately bought a Mac Mini 2018 for use as a music server. The MacMini is an i7 with 16 GB RAM, a 1 TB internal SSD ans a 2 TB external SSD and is hard wired via Cat 7a Ethernet to my Devialet. At first, I quite liked the sound from the Mac Mini, but after a while I noticed that it was a bit shrill and started to get quite fatiguing with long listening sessions.

So I asked my local dealer for a Nucleus loan. When connected to my system, the shrillness was immediately gone and the sound was pleasing right from the start! So quite some improvement compared to the Mac Mini.

The Nucleus is dead quiet, fast, and absolutely reliable. I was also debating whether I should buy a Nucleus +, but with my simple setup (no simultaneous streaming to several zones at a time) and given my smallish library (about 400 albums, about 30% High Res), the Nucleus breaks no sweat.

I am streaming my music to a WiFi repeater via Ethernet, and from there on via WiFi to my Devialet. I find the sound a bit more detailed than going straight Ethernet to the Dev.

So all in all, the Nucleus is definitely a plus for my system!

The next step will be to upgrade my Expert 120 to the 220 Expert Pro to make my system Roon Ready ?
SonicTransporter i5 - AirPort Extreme - Devialet Expert 120 - ATC SCM 19 v1
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#20
(16-Feb-2019, 19:20)Sailor4W Wrote: Sorry to chime in this late, but I was abroad.

I deliberately bought a Mac Mini 2018 for use as a music server. The MacMini is an i7 with 16 GB RAM, a 1 TB internal SSD ans a 2 TB external SSD and is hard wired via Cat 7a Ethernet to my Devialet. At first, I quite liked the sound from the Mac Mini, but after a while I noticed that it was a bit shrill and started to get quite fatiguing with long listening sessions.

So I asked my local dealer for a Nucleus loan. When connected to my system, the shrillness was immediately gone and the sound was pleasing right from the start! So quite some improvement compared to the Mac Mini.

The Nucleus is dead quiet, fast, and absolutely reliable. I was also debating whether I should buy a Nucleus +, but with my simple setup (no simultaneous streaming to several zones at a time) and given my smallish library (about 400 albums, about 30% High Res), the Nucleus breaks no sweat.

I am streaming my music to a WiFi repeater via Ethernet, and from there on via WiFi to my Devialet. I find the sound a bit more detailed than going straight Ethernet to the Dev.

So all in all, the Nucleus is definitely a plus for my system!

The next step will be to upgrade my Expert 120 to the 220 Expert Pro to make my system Roon Ready ?

Thanks for the response!  I’m wondering if I would notice a difference between the Nucleus and my ROCK NUC.  It doesn’t sound shrill at all to me, and seems to be breaking in a bit.  Wondering how different the NUC board is in the Nucleus.  I am using an 8th gen which has a different ethernet chipset.
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