Help in improving audio performance

[lal99]

Hello,

This is my first post in Devialet forum. I need some suggestion from Devialet users. I am using Devialet 120 from 2016 with Harbeth Compact 7es3 and  I moved to US in 2017. At present I am using Salk Speakers ( Silk tower model).Overall I would say my speaker sounds similar to Harbeth sound. Now I am looking for some option to improve the audio performance.

My current issue is I am not getting good sound quality with local playback/streaming (Tidal) from my laptop, I am streaming using Devialet air using ethernet. I get some cracking sound sometimes and I hate it . My Roon subscription expired and with Roon I never had this cracking sound issue. I am using Cat6 cable from blue jean cable ( not audiophile) I am looking for option to improve the source. At present I am using stock power cable and wall mount. I have plans to upgrade wall socket to Furutech NCF. At present I am not using audiophile cables, power conditioners or vibration control. 

1) For improving source I am thinking of getting a NUC or Sonic transporter  and install Roon Rock ( subscribe Roon) and use it as a server and add a Roon endpoint not sure which one. First  question building a NUC myself or getting from Sonic transporter which is better option. If I build a NUC with I7 processor and good ram will it be as good as Sonic transporter? I felt high end configuration from Sonic transporter (I9) is very expensive for an audio server.
Also can you guys suggest a good roon endpoint.


2) Other option I am thinking of getting a  Devialet 220 or higher by trading my Devialet 120. Dont want to go with upgrade option as it is more expensive  . Does Devialet 220 pro is much better than 120 Expert models in sound performance? I have heard 220 many times but could never do an A to B comparison with 120. I didnt feel much difference in sound quality when I heard 220 alone. Can some one who upgraded to 220 pro give me some idea about the improvement in sound performance? Also how good is core infinity board, the streaming quality improved substantially?

I am sorry for too many questions in the first post itself. 

Thanks
Lal

[Flashman]

Hello,

This is my first post in Devialet forum. I need some suggestion from Devialet users. I am using Devialet 120 from 2016 with Harbeth Compact 7es3 and  I moved to US in 2017. At present I am using Salk Speakers ( Silk tower model).Overall I would say my speaker sounds similar to Harbeth sound. Now I am looking for some option to improve the audio performance.

My current issue is I am not getting good sound quality with local playback/streaming (Tidal) from my laptop, I am streaming using Devialet air using ethernet. I get some cracking sound sometimes and I hate it . My Roon subscription expired and with Roon I never had this cracking sound issue. I am using Cat6 cable from blue jean cable ( not audiophile) I am looking for option to improve the source. At present I am using stock power cable and wall mount. I have plans to upgrade wall socket to Furutech NCF. At present I am not using audiophile cables, power conditioners or vibration control. 

1) For improving source I am thinking of getting a NUC or Sonic transporter  and install Roon Rock ( subscribe Roon) and use it as a server and add a Roon endpoint not sure which one. First  question building a NUC myself or getting from Sonic transporter which is better option. If I build a NUC with I7 processor and good ram will it be as good as Sonic transporter? I felt high end configuration from Sonic transporter (I9) is very expensive for an audio server.
Also can you guys suggest a good roon endpoint.


2) Other option I am thinking of getting a  Devialet 220 or higher by trading my Devialet 120. Dont want to go with upgrade option as it is more expensive  . Does Devialet 220 pro is much better than 120 Expert models in sound performance? I have heard 220 many times but could never do an A to B comparison with 120. I didnt feel much difference in sound quality when I heard 220 alone. Can some one who upgraded to 220 pro give me some idea about the improvement in sound performance? Also how good is core infinity board, the streaming quality improved substantially?

I am sorry for too many questions in the first post itself. 

Thanks
Lal

Regarding option 1, if you want to save money, you could build a NUC and use Roon's implementation of Devialet AIR, thus no need for a different Roon endpoint.  Some people like building a NUC and saving money and other people, such as me, prefer to go the purchase route (Nucleus in my case).

Regarding option 2, I cannot answer your question about sound performance but will tell you that I upgraded from a Devialet Expert 200 to a Devialet Expert 220 Pro.  I am pleased with the results, as I wanted Roon Ready and Spotify Connect.  

Good luck!

[lal99]

Hello,

This is my first post in Devialet forum. I need some suggestion from Devialet users. I am using Devialet 120 from 2016 with Harbeth Compact 7es3 and  I moved to US in 2017. At present I am using Salk Speakers ( Silk tower model).Overall I would say my speaker sounds similar to Harbeth sound. Now I am looking for some option to improve the audio performance.

My current issue is I am not getting good sound quality with local playback/streaming (Tidal) from my laptop, I am streaming using Devialet air using ethernet. I get some cracking sound sometimes and I hate it . My Roon subscription expired and with Roon I never had this cracking sound issue. I am using Cat6 cable from blue jean cable ( not audiophile) I am looking for option to improve the source. At present I am using stock power cable and wall mount. I have plans to upgrade wall socket to Furutech NCF. At present I am not using audiophile cables, power conditioners or vibration control. 

1) For improving source I am thinking of getting a NUC or Sonic transporter  and install Roon Rock ( subscribe Roon) and use it as a server and add a Roon endpoint not sure which one. First  question building a NUC myself or getting from Sonic transporter which is better option. If I build a NUC with I7 processor and good ram will it be as good as Sonic transporter? I felt high end configuration from Sonic transporter (I9) is very expensive for an audio server.
Also can you guys suggest a good roon endpoint.


2) Other option I am thinking of getting a  Devialet 220 or higher by trading my Devialet 120. Dont want to go with upgrade option as it is more expensive  . Does Devialet 220 pro is much better than 120 Expert models in sound performance? I have heard 220 many times but could never do an A to B comparison with 120. I didnt feel much difference in sound quality when I heard 220 alone. Can some one who upgraded to 220 pro give me some idea about the improvement in sound performance? Also how good is core infinity board, the streaming quality improved substantially?

I am sorry for too many questions in the first post itself. 

Thanks
Lal

Regarding option 1, if you want to save money, you could build a NUC and use Roon's implementation of Devialet AIR, thus no need for a different Roon endpoint.  Some people like building a NUC and saving money and other people, such as me, prefer to go the purchase route (Nucleus in my case).

Regarding option 2, I cannot answer your question about sound performance but will tell you that I upgraded from a Devialet Expert 200 to a Devialet Expert 220 Pro.  I am pleased with the results, as I wanted Roon Ready and Spotify Connect.  

Good luck!

Thanks a lot for your reply. I missed that point of using Devialet as an endpoint for Roon. That will help I can either build a NUC or get a ready made option. Now question is do we need I7 processor model or I3 . I am not sure about the improvement in quality by upsampling to DSD 512. For trying this do I need to get I7 model or I3 model is enough. Roon nucleus entry level model can do upsampling or only I7 model is only capable? Please let me know.

Thanks for letting me know that you are happy with the performance of 220 pro model over 200 expert model.

[David A]

Thanks a lot for your reply. I missed that point of using Devialet as an endpoint for Roon. That will help I can either build a NUC or get a ready made option. Now question is do we need I7 processor model or I3 . I am not sure about the improvement in quality by upsampling to DSD 512. For trying this do I need to get I7 model or I3 model is enough. Roon nucleus entry level model can do upsampling or only I7 model is only capable? Please let me know.

Thanks for letting me know that you are happy with the performance of 220 pro model over 200 expert model.

Roon's comment about the Nucleus+ (i7 processor) vs the Nucleus (i3 processor) is that the Nucleus+ can handle larger libraries, more zones simultaneously, and some more intensive DSP operations. Upsampling can be intensive but the basic Nucleus with the i3 can handle most DSP operations.

When it comes to using a NUC with a Devialet the biggest limitation on upsampling is the Devialet. The Devialet can handle inputs of up to 192/24 PCM and up to DSD64. There's no point to upsampling to DSD 512 with a Devialet because the Devialet can't handle it. There's no point to feeding the Devialet with higher resolution inputs than 192'24 or DSD64. The Devialet will itself upsample lower resolutions than 192/24 to 192/24 automatically. You could have Roon upsample lower resolutions to 192/24 if you wish but one of the things Roon says about using its DSP capabilities is that one reason for not using Roon DSP is that you're streaming to a device which does its own upsampling if that device handles upsampling well itself. I've got a Nucleus+ and I've compared having Roon upsample to 192/24 vs letting my Devialet do it and I wasn't certain whether I heard a really small difference or couldn't hear a difference but in the end decided that I preferred letting the Devialet do the upsampling. The i3 Nucleus is perfectly capable of upsampling PCM to 192/24 and you can make your own comparison and decide for yourself but in my view there's no reason to use Roon's DSP to do upsampling of PCM.

As I said, there's no reason to upsample DSD to DSD 512 because the Devialet is limited to DSD64 input. You could have Roon convert PSM to DSD64 and send that to the Devialet. That can be an intensive processing task but I think the i3 Nucleus is up to it. The Devialet, however, can't do native DSP processing so it converts DSD input to PCM and it gives you several options for the conversion process. I've tried a couple of those options and preferred not converting PCM to DSD. It's possible that I may have preferred one of the options I didn't try but I think that's doubtful and I can't see any point in doing a PCM to DSD conversion only to have the Devialet then do a DSD to PCM conversion. I think as a matter of principle that it's best to minimise the processing you do.

The bottom line is that provided you have a library of less than 10,000 albums/100,000 tracks and have 6 or less different zones you want to use simultaneously through your house, the i3 Nucleus is probably all you need. Roon may add some feature at a later date that requires more processing power than the i3 can deliver but the i3 is probably all I really needed. I went for the Nucleus+ with its i7 processor because I was upgrading from an older Antipodes model with a less powerful Celeron processor which could run a little slow on searches and I decided to go for the Nucleus+ simply because it was the most powerful of the 2 models and therefore probably a little more "future proof" than the basic Nucleus but my library isn't large enough to need the Nucleus+, I'm not using Roon's DSP for the reasons given above, and I never use more than 1 zone at the same time so I probably wouldn't notice any difference at all between the Nucleus and the Nucleus+.

Really the only reasons for preferring the Nucleus+ to the Nucleus with a Devialet are that you've got a very large library or you're wanting to use more than 6 zones at the same time. The Nucleus should handle any DSP processing you will want it t do.

[Cylob]

The possibly best and cheapest way to improve your sound is to try firmware 7.1.3. 
It has a much more analogue sound. Less harsh, clinical than all later firmwares for the non-Pro Experts.

You can read about the different firmwares here:
Firmware 7.1.3 vs 8.1.3 vs 10.0.2 

and here:
Firmware 7.1.3 released

download links here [link in first post]:
https://devialetchat.com/Thread-Devialet...re-Archive

Your 120 will sound magical! Good luck!

[lal99]

Roon's comment about the Nucleus+ (i7 processor) vs the Nucleus (i3 processor) is that the Nucleus+ can handle larger libraries, more zones simultaneously, and some more intensive DSP operations. Upsampling can be intensive but the basic Nucleus with the i3 can handle most DSP operations.

When it comes to using a NUC with a Devialet the biggest limitation on upsampling is the Devialet. The Devialet can handle inputs of up to 192/24 PCM and up to DSD64. There's no point to upsampling to DSD 512 with a Devialet because the Devialet can't handle it. There's no point to feeding the Devialet with higher resolution inputs than 192'24 or DSD64. The Devialet will itself upsample lower resolutions than 192/24 to 192/24 automatically. You could have Roon upsample lower resolutions to 192/24 if you wish but one of the things Roon says about using its DSP capabilities is that one reason for not using Roon DSP is that you're streaming to a device which does its own upsampling if that device handles upsampling well itself. I've got a Nucleus+ and I've compared having Roon upsample to 192/24 vs letting my Devialet do it and I wasn't certain whether I heard a really small difference or couldn't hear a difference but in the end decided that I preferred letting the Devialet do the upsampling. The i3 Nucleus is perfectly capable of upsampling PCM to 192/24 and you can make your own comparison and decide for yourself but in my view there's no reason to use Roon's DSP to do upsampling of PCM.

As I said, there's no reason to upsample DSD to DSD 512 because the Devialet is limited to DSD64 input. You could have Roon convert PSM to DSD64 and send that to the Devialet. That can be an intensive processing task but I think the i3 Nucleus is up to it. The Devialet, however, can't do native DSP processing so it converts DSD input to PCM and it gives you several options for the conversion process. I've tried a couple of those options and preferred not converting PCM to DSD. It's possible that I may have preferred one of the options I didn't try but I think that's doubtful and I can't see any point in doing a PCM to DSD conversion only to have the Devialet then do a DSD to PCM conversion. I think as a matter of principle that it's best to minimise the processing you do.

The bottom line is that provided you have a library of less than 10,000 albums/100,000 tracks and have 6 or less different zones you want to use simultaneously through your house, the i3 Nucleus is probably all you need. Roon may add some feature at a later date that requires more processing power than the i3 can deliver but the i3 is probably all I really needed. I went for the Nucleus+ with its i7 processor because I was upgrading from an older Antipodes model with a less powerful Celeron processor which could run a little slow on searches and I decided to go for the Nucleus+ simply because it was the most powerful of the 2 models and therefore probably a little more "future proof" than the basic Nucleus but my library isn't large enough to need the Nucleus+, I'm not using Roon's DSP for the reasons given above, and I never use more than 1 zone at the same time so I probably wouldn't notice any difference at all between the Nucleus and the Nucleus+.

Really the only reasons for preferring the Nucleus+ to the Nucleus with a Devialet are that you've got a very large library or you're wanting to use more than 6 zones at the same time. The Nucleus should handle any DSP processing you will want it t do.



Thank you very much for your detailed and precise reply, really appreciate your help. Neither I have more than one zone nor do I have albums more than 10,000 songs. At the most I may have maximum two zones in future. 

Regarding up sampling I do hear mix reviews some people like and some dont. So may be I should not worry about it. Thanks for making my decision easier by letting know all the details. Thanks once again.

[lal99]

The possibly best and cheapest way to improve your sound is to try firmware 7.1.3. 
It has a much more analogue sound. Less harsh, clinical than all later firmwares for the non-Pro Experts.

You can read about the different firmwares here:
Firmware 7.1.3 vs 8.1.3 vs 10.0.2 

and here:
Firmware 7.1.3 released

download links here [link in first post]:
https://devialetchat.com/Thread-Devialet...re-Archive

Your 120 will sound magical! Good luck!

Hi Cyclob,

Thanks a lot for this information and for sharing the experience of forum members/users . I will try 7.1.3 FW for sure. I was under the impression latest firmware is always better because it will have better quality or more bug fixes. Really appreciate your help.

Are you using dual subs or one Rel sub woofer? I am thinking of adding  Rythmik subs to Devialet 120. Since my  Devialet doesn't have preout I assume I can use high level connection and connect it to sub. I think  it is difficult to take two speaker wire connection ( because of two banana plug at same place) one to sub and other to left and right speaker from Devialet. I know it is bit easy to connect with Rel subs. Is there any easy method to connect subs from other manufacturers ?

Thanks 

[no32]

The possibly best and cheapest way to improve your sound is to try firmware 7.1.3. 
It has a much more analogue sound. Less harsh, clinical than all later firmwares for the non-Pro Experts.

You can read about the different firmwares here:
Firmware 7.1.3 vs 8.1.3 vs 10.0.2 

and here:
Firmware 7.1.3 released

download links here [link in first post]:
https://devialetchat.com/Thread-Devialet...re-Archive

Your 120 will sound magical! Good luck!

+ 1 highly recommended


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Cylob]

I'm using just a single subwoofer to fill up the lowest frequencies the Magnepans leave out (crossover at around 40Hz).
My sub is wired to the speaker cables as advised by Rel.
Not sure what's the best way to connect Rythmik subs, but I'm sure someone else out here can give you advice on that.

[lal99]

Thank you.