Honest advice please

[graemeharrison]

Hi there

I'm new to the forum and I have a ton of questions (the answers to most of which I'm sure that I'll find by searching). My central one however is about sound quality. I currently have a Naim Uniti running into PMC Fact 8's and I'm demoing a used Expert 120. I've long being fascinated by Devialet but I'm having a hard time making my mind up. At the moment when comparing the 120 to the Uniti I hear the following:

PRO's: 
Amazing bottom end (especially with SAM)
Good spaciousness and air

CON's
Not as musical
Top end can be harsh
Mid is not as fluid

.... but I've been using Naim for 30 years now so maybe I'm just really used to that sound. I'd really appreciate input from people who are used to both, and especially people who have switched from Naim to Devialet. Thanks, Graeme.

[ICUDoc]

CON's
Not as musical
Top end can be harsh
Mid is not as fluid

Hi, Graeme and welcome- lots of lovely and experienced people here who can answer all sorts of hifi questions.
For me, the Devs can be as musical as anything out there- they have to be set up right
Right power (cords; maybe clean source)
Right supports (vibration dampening)
Then the highs are great, musicality flows and mid is plenty fluid although I have never considered exactly what that means so maybe take it with a grain of salt.
One pro you left out is imaging like magic. As they say in Ghostbusters "free-floating, full-torso, vaporous apparition".
Crappy power can indeed make upper highs less natural.
All the best.

[ogs]

A few questions:
which firmware is the 120 running?
how do you stream to the Devialet?
Are you using the same cables as with your Naim electronics?

I owned a 250. Started as D-Premier and was upgraded along the way. I've never had harsh treble. Some versions of firmware were less to my liking than others (like early 8.x), but 10.1.0 is very good and the legendary 7.1.3 beta is a favourite among many. I never listened to a 120, but I doubt it is very different. Less refined of course, but generally the same character.

[docvale]

Hi there

I'm new to the forum and I have a ton of questions (the answers to most of which I'm sure that I'll find by searching). My central one however is about sound quality. I currently have a Naim Uniti running into PMC Fact 8's and I'm demoing a used Expert 120. I've long being fascinated by Devialet but I'm having a hard time making my mind up. At the moment when comparing the 120 to the Uniti I hear the following:

PRO's: 
Amazing bottom end (especially with SAM)
Good spaciousness and air

CON's
Not as musical
Top end can be harsh
Mid is not as fluid

.... but I've been using Naim for 30 years now so maybe I'm just really used to that sound. I'd really appreciate input from people who are used to both, and especially people who have switched from Naim to Devialet. Thanks, Graeme.

Hi and welcome!
I own an Expert 120 (purchased used in December) and honestly I cannot find the harshness you are referring to.
I am a kind of fan of the Naim sound but I don’t have any experience with the original Uniti.

Anecdote:
I upgraded my system in parallel to a good friend. He has Focal 948, I have the 936. He got a Uniti Nova, I got the Devialet. He’s just upgraded his record player from Rega RP1 with basic MM cart and phono to a P8 with Apheta 3 and Musical Surroundings phono stage; I kept (for now) my old Project RPM1.3 with Sumiko Pearl MM. He told me how the upgrade of his deck made a day and night difference in vinyl playback: when he listened to my vinyl rig, he just said “well, you might hear a modest upgrade if you changed your turntable...”
The point is: the 120 is by no means a bottleneck in terms of clarity, refinement and punch.
My only gripe is that you have to push the volume a tad more than what you’d expect (at least in my setup) to make it sing properly.
I also think that a modern Naim Uniti series device could make anyone happy, but the benefit of the Devialet is for sure in the price (on the second hand market obviously)

[Damon]

Hi @graemeharrison
Welcome, and although you will find discussions about Naim and Devialet on the forum, most of those threads are probably four old or so.

My brief history may be relevant or useful for you. I used Naim gear for about 10 years before switching to a Devialet Expert 120 in 2015. I was looking to go up the Naim chain to a SuperUniti, when I reconnected with the sales person who had sold me my Naim equipment; he was then at a shop selling Devialet.

I found the Devialet sound to be exactly what I was looking for: more power, astounding space and purity of tone, especially in the bass regions. And being a bass player, I am always focusing on the tone and texture of bass (a tiresome handicap, in many ways). I've droned on about this before, but listening to recordings of my own music, much more is revealed through the Devialet than from the Naim.

I understand the Naim sound and I appreciate very much what it does, and how it presents music. To my ears, the Naim equivalents to Devialet, in price primarily, sound veiled. The top end seems less harsh as it is a bit recessed, and the mids are emphasized as they come across as 'pushed' along with the bass tones- which Naim does very well. If you listen to Naim systems in the 300 series, or whatever it is now, I think you will find the sound more similar to Devialet.

I'm not intending to throw a general blanket of criticism over Naim; only to say that I (me, just me) find that some of the apparent strengths of the Naim presentation become drawbacks for me when compared to the Devialet.

Rather than say the Naim is more musical or less harsh or more fluid, I would consider the presentation of the general parts of the music and then decide which style of audio presentation you prefer. At this point, I would not go back to Naim because I hear more of the music with the Devialet. More tone variety, texture, and micro details.

It may also be that the PMC benefits from the top end roll-off or softenss that the Uniti has. My Dali's are a superb match with the Devialet, but perhaps my old ProAcs would be different. My wife says the sound is 'warm and luscious'. But what does she know. Right?

I'm not actually sure that I've helped much, but I'm not going to waste all this typing. But do search for Naim to Devialet threads. There are quite a few Ex-Naim people here. I don't think anyone went back. One member, also a former Naim owner, is @PhilP and he was extremely helpful to me when I was considering the same move that you are.

One final note. The Expert Series, like the D120 does have a different sound character to the later Pro Series. Many who upgraded found the change to be an improvement that we did not think possible. However, a few Expert upgraders were not as pleased. I'd say the the upgrade to the Pro CI amps moved the Devialet sound farther along the path where it diverges from the Naim sound. That also may not be very helpful, but if you're noodling around here, it might be interesting reading. Especially my posts; they're captivating.

[graemeharrison]

Hi @graemeharrison
Welcome, and although you will find discussions about Naim and Devialet on the forum, most of those threads are probably four old or so.

My brief history may be relevant or useful for you. I used Naim gear for about 10 years before switching to a Devialet Expert 120 in 2015. I was looking to go up the Naim chain to a SuperUniti, when I reconnected with the sales person who had sold me my Naim equipment; he was then at a shop selling Devialet.

I found the Devialet sound to be exactly what I was looking for: more power, astounding space and purity of tone, especially in the bass regions. And being a bass player, I am always focusing on the tone and texture of bass (a tiresome handicap, in many ways). I've droned on about this before, but listening to recordings of my own music, much more is revealed through the Devialet than from the Naim.

I understand the Naim sound and I appreciate very much what it does, and how it presents music. To my ears, the Naim equivalents to Devialet, in price primarily, sound veiled. The top end seems less harsh as it is a bit recessed, and the mids are emphasized as they come across as 'pushed' along with the bass tones- which Naim does very well. If you listen to Naim systems in the 300 series, or whatever it is now, I think you will find the sound more similar to Devialet.

I'm not intending to throw a general blanket of criticism over Naim; only to say that I (me, just me) find that some of the apparent strengths of the Naim presentation become drawbacks for me when compared to the Devialet.

Rather than say the Naim is more musical or less harsh or more fluid, I would consider the presentation of the general parts of the music and then decide which style of audio presentation you prefer. At this point, I would not go back to Naim because I hear more of the music with the Devialet. More tone variety, texture, and micro details.

It may also be that the PMC benefits from the top end roll-off or softenss that the Uniti has. My Dali's are a superb match with the Devialet, but perhaps my old ProAcs would be different. My wife says the sound is 'warm and luscious'. But what does she know. Right?

I'm not actually sure that I've helped much, but I'm not going to waste all this typing. But do search for Naim to Devialet threads. There are quite a few Ex-Naim people here. I don't think anyone went back. One member, also a former Naim owner, is @PhilP and he was extremely helpful to me when I was considering the same move that you are.

One final note. The Expert Series, like the D120 does have a different sound character to the later Pro Series. Many who upgraded found the change to be an improvement that we did not think possible. However, a few Expert upgraders were not as pleased. I'd say the the upgrade to the Pro CI amps moved the Devialet sound farther along the path where it diverges from the Naim sound. That also may not be very helpful, but if you're noodling around here, it might be interesting reading. Especially my posts; they're captivating.

Thanks so much for your input Damon, this does really help. My sources are a Bluesound Node 2 and an LP12/Ittok/Hana SL and my speaker cables are Naim. I actually run Bluesound Professional, making streaming audio hardware for commercial installations and I'm a drummer and appreciate the weight of the low end of the Devialet. I'm glad to see that you are using both our M32 and also the Dali speakers that we distribute in North America.

[graemeharrison]

Hi there

I'm new to the forum and I have a ton of questions (the answers to most of which I'm sure that I'll find by searching). My central one however is about sound quality. I currently have a Naim Uniti running into PMC Fact 8's and I'm demoing a used Expert 120. I've long being fascinated by Devialet but I'm having a hard time making my mind up. At the moment when comparing the 120 to the Uniti I hear the following:

PRO's: 
Amazing bottom end (especially with SAM)
Good spaciousness and air

CON's
Not as musical
Top end can be harsh
Mid is not as fluid

.... but I've been using Naim for 30 years now so maybe I'm just really used to that sound. I'd really appreciate input from people who are used to both, and especially people who have switched from Naim to Devialet. Thanks, Graeme.

Hi and welcome!
I own an Expert 120 (purchased used in December) and honestly I cannot find the harshness you are referring to.
I am a kind of fan of the Naim sound but I don’t have any experience with the original Uniti.

Anecdote:
I upgraded my system in parallel to a good friend. He has Focal 948, I have the 936. He got a Uniti Nova, I got the Devialet. He’s just upgraded his record player from Rega RP1 with basic MM cart and phono to a P8 with Apheta 3 and Musical Surroundings phono stage; I kept (for now) my old Project RPM1.3 with Sumiko Pearl MM. He told me how the upgrade of his deck made a day and night difference in vinyl playback: when he listened to my vinyl rig, he just said “well, you might hear a modest upgrade if you changed your turntable...”
The point is: the 120 is by no means a bottleneck in terms of clarity, refinement and punch.
My only gripe is that you have to push the volume a tad more than what you’d expect (at least in my setup) to make it  sing properly.
I also think that a modern Naim Uniti series device could make anyone happy, but the benefit of the Devialet is for sure in the price (on the second hand market obviously)

Thanks so much for your reply. My sources are an LP12/Ittok/Hana SL and a Bluesound Node 2 and I totally agree that the source is the very first thing that anyone should get right.

[graemeharrison]

CON's
Not as musical
Top end can be harsh
Mid is not as fluid

Hi, Graeme and welcome- lots of lovely and experienced people here who can answer all sorts of hifi questions.
For me, the Devs can be as musical as anything out there- they have to be set up right
Right power (cords; maybe clean source)
Right supports (vibration dampening)
Then the highs are great, musicality flows and mid is plenty fluid although I have never considered exactly what that means so maybe take it with a grain of salt.
One pro you left out is imaging like magic. As they say in Ghostbusters "free-floating, full-torso, vaporous apparition".
Crappy power can indeed make upper highs less natural.
All the best.

Thanks for your insight and (as with all of the replies) your tolerance to my vascilations! Yes, the imaging is excellent and leads to the feeling of spaciousness. I'm using a Alphason Hi-Fi rack and the AC is being fed through aa APC mains conditioner and an upgraded power cable (not sure of the make but the same one that I was using on the Naim). Speaker cables are my old Naim cables.

[graemeharrison]

A few questions:
which firmware is the 120 running?
how do you stream to the Devialet?
Are you using the same cables as with your Naim electronics?

I owned a 250. Started as D-Premier and was upgraded along the way. I've never had harsh treble. Some versions of firmware were less to my liking than others (like early 8.x), but 10.1.0 is very good and the legendary 7.1.3 beta is a favourite among many. I never listened to a 120, but I doubt it is very different. Less refined of course, but generally the same character.

Hi there, thanks for your questions. FW is 10.1, I stream to the Devialet from a Bluesound Node 2 and the cables (Morrow interconnects, Naim speaker cables) are the same as I was using for the Uniti. My LP12/Ittok/Hana SL is now going direct in to the MM phono stage on the Devialet - previously it was going through a Musical Fidelity phono preamp into the Naim. Also the Node was going through a Chord Mojo into an analog in on the Naim as I preferred the sound to going in digitally (I prefered the Mojo DAC over the Naim DAC).

[ogs]

A few questions:
which firmware is the 120 running?
how do you stream to the Devialet?
Are you using the same cables as with your Naim electronics?

I owned a 250. Started as D-Premier and was upgraded along the way. I've never had harsh treble. Some versions of firmware were less to my liking than others (like early 8.x), but 10.1.0 is very good and the legendary 7.1.3 beta is a favourite among many. I never listened to a 120, but I doubt it is very different. Less refined of course, but generally the same character.

Hi there, thanks for your questions. FW is 10.1, I stream to the Devialet from a Bluesound Node 2 and the cables (Morrow interconnects, Naim speaker cables) are the same as I was using for the Uniti. My LP12/Ittok/Hana SL is now going direct in to the MM phono stage on the Devialet - previously it was going through a Musical Fidelity phono preamp into the Naim. Also the Node was going through a Chord Mojo into an analog in on the Naim as I preferred the sound to going in digitally (I prefered the Mojo DAC over the Naim DAC).

@Damon  touches on something I thought about, but didn't write. The Fact 8's may be a bit pronounced in the treble region and that is probably what you hear as harsh. A little experimentation with cables ( power, digital and speaker cables) should hopefully fix most of that. Fact 8's can be bi-wired? Try connecting to the treble terminals instead of the lower ones (if you're not already using bi-wiring). Those jumpers are often better for bass than treble...