How much amplifier power do you really need?

[ogs]

Also there is a 24/96 download available direct from MA recordings at $40... https://www.marecordings.com/main/produc...80ft51g5k3 if high rez PCM is OK

[Greg]

Also there is a 24/96 download available direct from MA recordings at $40... https://www.marecordings.com/main/produc...80ft51g5k3 if high rez PCM is OK

Indeed, so in the U.K. with delivery from MA Recordings (in the USA) you can purchase the red book CD for £27 or the high res 24/96 download for £34. However, when I made my order for the CD, all I got offered was the download. Whether this is because the CD is out of stock or for international orders, MA Recordings will only offer the download, I don’t know. I concluded the extra £7 for a high res download was ok and considerably affordable compared with the price from other suppliers.

[Confused]

This one is ****Free*****, although admittedly not quite 24/96.  Just spend the money saved on a decent bottle of wine, it’ll sound much the same after a few glasses.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hMgFJOQNme0

[Greg]

This one is ****Free*****, although admittedly not quite 24/96.  Just spend the money saved on a decent bottle of wine, it’ll sound much the same after a few glasses.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hMgFJOQNme0

That is a different album. Still a good recording and good music and also available on Qobuz.

[Greg]

This one is ****Free*****, although admittedly not quite 24/96.  Just spend the money saved on a decent bottle of wine, it’ll sound much the same after a few glasses.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hMgFJOQNme0

That is a different album. Still a good recording and good music and also available on Qobuz.

Here’s a track from the actual album in the blog @thumb5 linked to.

https://youtu.be/qObUnXis4mw

PS. I like world music and both these albums appeal to me. Very happy to have them both in my Library. Once I’ve had a good listen, I’ll consider the question posed in regard to ‘How much amplifier power do you really need’.

[thumb5]

@ogs, @Greg, @Confused

Wow. thanks for your research, chaps! I also contacted MA Recordings in the meantime; they told me that the redbook CD is available, at USD 16.50 plus USD 13 for shipping to the UK. Will probably take a punt on that or the download, as I enjoyed the track on YouTube.

[RebelMan]

@RebelMan - the Archimego link is interesting, although I am not sure about the merit of testing with test tones at specific frequencies.  For example, you might do the test with a 120Hz tone as suggested, and get a particular result.  However, with a specific speaker the result at 60Hz or 200Hz might be very different due to variations in the impedance curve.  So I think the proposed test might give you an indication of the power required, but only an approximation.  I guess you could try the test using real music, but then the results would depend on the response time of the voltmeter used.  I am not an expert with respect to voltmeters, but I suspect that the response time is typically somewhat less than would be ideal for this sort of test.

There are a few weaknesses with the testing as you noted but they can be overcome.  The static frequencies (120Hz or 220Hz) of the samples are intended to stabilize (maintain a constant) impedance for the given voltage reading so that an approximate power rating can be calculated.  This is why the step involving “some dynamic music that's not recorded loud nor unnaturally compressed” is required because it put’s your listening habits in the ball park of what voltage will actually be measured of the 120Hz or 220Hz samples in the following step.

It would be impractical to measure the entire frequency spectrum using static samples not to mention unnecessary.  Even though it’s true that other speakers may place greater demands at different frequencies, like 60Hz or 200Hz.  Despite the variations between speakers, the average power needed can still be reasonably determined using the 120Hz and 220Hz samples because it is typically around these lower frequencies where the greatest demands for power will occur.  As long as the listener factor’s in some additional headroom into the measured calculations (2dB-3dB) the amount of power for the job can be well determined.

[RebelMan]

...
Architecturally speaking, the Expert Pros are identical and so they should sound the same for a given SPL that does not breach the capabilities the weakest amplifier, the D140 in this case.  I say "should sound" because people have varying opinions about what they hear.  But what they hear has no baring on what is, the Expert Pros are in fact the same.

You can argue until you're blue in the face that two different amplifiers should sound the same because they have the same specifications, design, etc., but what people actually hear is what matters.  This is not an academic exercise to "spot the difference" between amplifiers, it's about a subjective experience.

Speaking as someone who has heard pretty much the whole of the Devialet Expert/Pro range, in my own room with no pressure or advice from people you dismiss as "jokers", I've chosen the one that gives me the best sound quality.  I feel no urge to talk condescendingly about your choice so perhaps you'd show me (and others) the same courtesy.

I trust what you think you hear makes a difference to you, regardless of whether it is true or not.  But have you ever been part of a blind testing group?  Most people that have been are often blown away by what they "thought" they were hearing.  I could elaborate with a recent example I was a party to (DAC Shootout) but that might take this discussion off topic.  Suffice it to say your ears can tell lies.

Also, haven't you found the near universal remarks by the "industry experts" that start off by saying one Devialet model sounds  virtually indistinguishable from another only to later change footing in the prose because they don't want to make the company look bad, a little too coincidental?  That's because they really aren't coincidental.  Just saying.

[thumb5]

Your argument is quite familiar. However, as I said, the object of the exercise is not to establish some kind of universal truth about whether the amplifiers are technically different or even result in different sound waves coming out of the loudspeakers, but rather to identify which one I prefer listening to. Whether or not my ears are "lying" to me -- which is a rather meaningless and provocative comment in itself -- is entirely irrelevant to that process: they are the only way I have of hearing anything, and I am not using them as measuring instruments so their "honesty" or lack of it is a moot point.

[RebelMan]

The problem is people believe more power will sound better because some joker says it will and they have no reason to question that. 

That joker would be my ears. And that difference is most noticeable at lower volumes.

I can try to explain (to myself as well as anyone else here) why there is a difference but I'm not sure how accurate that would be. Let's just give it a try:
Say you want to travel on the freeway at 100 kilometres per hour. You probably only 'need' 50 horse power in your car to achieve that. But if you had a nice 6 litre V8 you're going to be doing that 100 kilometres per hour a lot more quietly than with the little 50 horse power car. A more powerful amp might sound more 'relaxed' at any give volume.

I get where you are going but the analogy you are making doesn't quite suit the situation here.  Let assume two similar amplifiers that only differ in total output power, say one at 100W and the other at 200W.  The more powerful amplifier is not going to sound better delivering 20W than the less powerful amplifier would delivering the same 20W.  Likewise, having two similar engines that only differ in total output power, say one at 300HP and the other at 600HP, the bigger engine is not going to drive at 60MPH any differently than a smaller engine will.  It's only at the extremes that more powerful amplifier and bigger engine are going to make a difference.  The question is, how likely are you to drive an amplifier to its extreme?  My lowly D140 can push SPL's to 102dB in my room.  That is incredibly loud.