So there's finally a SAM program for my ProAc D30R.. I've been waiting a while for it.. loaded it today, and well I'm rather disappointed. Here's what I found: In my system it did nothing for mids and soundstage.. I programmed the remote so I could switch back and forth and all it does in my system is boost the bass between 25 and and 125 hz by about 2-3db..
Now a couple of things to mention my room is fairly big 16' wide about 20' deep.. it's also unfortunately open at the back to the foyer, which adds about 8' of depth..also to the left of the speakers is an opening to the dinning room. I've always had issues getting great bass with any speakers in this room. So I use a REL Sub.. It's set at about 34hz.. Fills in the bottom two octaves and gives the system punch without boom..
What I did was take my trusty Radio Shack SPL meter with test tones from 20hz to 300hz and checked the system with no SAM and no Sub..As usual no bottom below about 40z.. Switch on SAM and I'm getting a bit more bottom end but ehh.. Add the sub in with and without SAM.. and frankly I get better sound with SAM off Sub on, and 2db of bass boost with Devialet tone control set to 70hz..
I also felt like the sound overall with SAM was a bit harsher in the mids and top, this could have just been my ears but I redid my Config file, removed SAM rebooted the system and it seems more liquid, easier to listen to.. So that's my experience. I think if one had a smaller room or a room that wasn't open that leaks bass, and didn't have a Sub then it would be a winner, just not for me.
SAM helps your bass go lower, not louder. Because a lot of bass is in the region around the 40-60Hz you will find that without SAM you can play louder and achieve more 'noticeable' bass. The 20-40HZ region that's not as noticeable asks a lot more from your woofers and SAM will drop the bass to protect them when you crank it up.
The way I see it, when you use SAM then acoustically, you're practically changing your speakers. Because they sound different you should approach them as new speakers and re-do your speaker placement. Some of that extra bass might now reflect from your walls and interfere with your mids and highs.
Good luck. Keep us posted.
Cheers,
Pim
Lifetime Roon, Mac mini, int. SSD, ext. HDD, tv as monitor, key board and track pad on bean bag as remote,Devialet 200, Od'A #097, Blue jeans speaker cable, Dynaudio C1 MkII. Jim Smith's GBS. Northern NSW Australia.
SAM helps your bass go lower, not louder. Because a lot of bass is in the region around the 40-60Hz you will find that without SAM you can play louder and achieve more 'noticeable' bass. The 20-40HZ region that's not as noticeable asks a lot more from your woofers and SAM will drop the bass to protect them when you crank it up.
The way I see it, when you use SAM then acoustically, you're practically changing your speakers. Because they sound different you should approach them as new speakers and re-do your speaker placement. Some of that extra bass might now reflect from your walls and interfere with your mids and highs.
Good luck. Keep us posted.
Cheers,
Pim
Thanks Pim.. I'm not really sure how I'd change the speaker position to any good cause. They are a bit more than 4ft from the rear wall and about 8.5ft apart.. If I moved them back closer to the rear wall I'd loose soundstage depth.. Don't want to do that.. Moving then father apart or closer together isn't going to effect the bass response.. I could both hear and measure with SAM engaged the increase in bass level.. They weren't really going any deeper..
I also have a pair of ProAc Response D30R floorstanding speakers and in my 12' wide x 14" deep room, I find that with SAM ON, the music seems more coherent and the bass does go deeper, especially at low listening levels. However, the SAM effect does matter on the material being played since it makes the bass go deeper.
For my listening habits and my type of music, I find that SAM offers a very positive effect. Also, my room seems to be very well damped (it's not a bright room at all).
I got the same results from in-store demo's of a Devialet 120 driving a pair of B&W 805D bookshelf speakers and again from a Devialet 400 driving a pair of B&W 802D floorstanding speakers.
From what Bruce Lee has to say it looks like you are both getting different outcomes from the same system so it is safe to say it is the rooms they play in. Erik, try to walk around the room a bit and see if you find there are any major changes. You could just have a reflection that introduced a dead spot in the lower frequency where your seat is. If that's the case then the bass will cancel out no matter how good or powerful it is. Or try plonking a mattress or something against the wall behind your seat just to try.
Keep us posted!
Cheers,
Pim
Lifetime Roon, Mac mini, int. SSD, ext. HDD, tv as monitor, key board and track pad on bean bag as remote,Devialet 200, Od'A #097, Blue jeans speaker cable, Dynaudio C1 MkII. Jim Smith's GBS. Northern NSW Australia.
With my D200 I started out with Kef LS50 and a pair of Kef R400B subs.
I couldn't get the bass/sub integration to my liking, so sought out a larger speaker.
I now have Vandersteen Treo CT , and no subs.
FYI: the Treo is a 4-way design, and exactly the Vandersteen Quatro but without the built-in sub amp.
I still wasn't getting the low bass output to my liking, then I had the "A-Ha !!!" moment of trying the tone controls.
I made SD cards with the bass tone point at 40, 45, 40, 50, 55, 60 Hz.
I have settled on 50Hz and a level of +3
I am now COMPLETELY happy with my bass and no need for subs -> Yippee !!!
03-Apr-2015, 00:50 (This post was last modified: 06-Apr-2015, 18:42 by ErikM.)
(30-Mar-2015, 02:59)ARL67 Wrote: Erik, try using the tone controls.
With my D200 I started out with Kef LS50 and a pair of Kef R400B subs.
I couldn't get the bass/sub integration to my liking, so sought out a larger speaker.
I now have Vandersteen Treo CT , and no subs.
FYI: the Treo is a 4-way design, and exactly the Vandersteen Quatro but without the built-in sub amp.
I still wasn't getting the low bass output to my liking, then I had the "A-Ha !!!" moment of trying the tone controls.
I made SD cards with the bass tone point at 40, 45, 40, 50, 55, 60 Hz.
I have settled on 50Hz and a level of +3
I am now COMPLETELY happy with my bass and no need for subs -> Yippee !!!
- Andy
My problem is my room. I wish there was a way to fix it but outside of moving that's not gonna happen. Again because of the layout of the room all the bass just leaks out. The room is basically open to the rest of the floor so it's hard to get great bass without the REL sub.. if you look at the pic you can see the opening to the left and the back of the room behind where I sit is open to the foyer, and stairs up to the second floor and an opening into the kitchen..
