PLC is first line?

[snbeall]

As a new owner, I am learning the nuances of networking these things with Dialogue. Is it true that the "preferred" connection that Phantom will seek first is PLC?! I have always thought data over house electrical wiring was a relatively poor quality way to handle data - sort of the poor mans Ethernet? I would think WiFi would be higher quality transmission. Is it the stability of wired connection and avoiding interference the goal? I presume if they are wired with Ethernet - at least one leg it would be superior to PLC? And if so, which leg? My problem is that I do not have a cable, nor Ethernet port near my Phantom position. Am I giving up quality relying upon PLC?
Thanks
Scott

[jonstatt]

As a new owner, I am learning the nuances of networking these things with Dialogue. Is it true that the "preferred" connection that Phantom will seek first is PLC?! I have always thought data over house electrical wiring was a relatively poor quality way to handle data - sort of the poor mans Ethernet? I would think WiFi would be higher quality transmission. Is it the stability of wired connection and avoiding interference the goal? I presume if they are wired with Ethernet - at least one leg it would be superior to PLC? And if so, which leg? My problem is that I do not have a cable, nor Ethernet port near my Phantom position. Am I giving up quality relying upon PLC?
Thanks
Scott

In theory, if the connection works it works. The same data is being passed regardless of cable, PLC or WiFi. However if there are lots of errors in the connection some users have noticed small levels of timing related issues with two phantoms in a stereo pair. This is because whatever mechanism Devialet use to keep multiple phantoms absolutely in sync are affected by unreliable network connectivity. However if everything is working well, there should be no audio differences regardless of connection mechanism. For me PLC works perfectly and in theory should have lower latency than WiFi particularly as WiFi is so easily affected by intereference/neighbours etc. PLC is actually very reliable as long as everything is on the same electrical circuit/fuse. But nothing will beat the reliability of the Dialogs being directly connected to both phantoms via Ethernet.

[Mohmm]

As a new owner, I am learning the nuances of networking these things with Dialogue. Is it true that the "preferred" connection that Phantom will seek first is PLC?! I have always thought data over house electrical wiring was a relatively poor quality way to handle data - sort of the poor mans Ethernet? I would think WiFi would be higher quality transmission. Is it the stability of wired connection and avoiding interference the goal? I presume if they are wired with Ethernet - at least one leg it would be superior to PLC? And if so, which leg? My problem is that I do not have a cable, nor Ethernet port near my Phantom position. Am I giving up quality relying upon PLC?
Thanks
Scott

As I understand the communication business between Phantoms and Dialog, they use first PLC (or alternatively also Bluetooth) for establishing a connection and for getting ready for streaming.

The streaming is then done via the options that you define. In my case I have all three items wired and part of my LAN. So I can tell the player (MacMini/Roon/Dirac) respectively dialog to send the data by wire, bluetooth or fiberoptic cable. Note that you must configure both Phantoms and Dialog to accept the option that you prefer.

In my case I send a fiberoptic cable to the Dialog, disable Airplay and Bluetooth in both Phantoms and check if they show their ethernet connection. Dialog then receives the music by optical and streams to the Phantoms by ethernet. This allows also for HiRez, which would be downsampled if you used Airplay via Bluetooth (or ethernet).

Conclusion for your problem: try to connect them to your LAN. If not, use the Bluetooth option. PLC is only for initial communication.

Enjoy.

[jonstatt]

Conclusion for your problem: try to connect them to your LAN. If not, use the Bluetooth option. PLC is only for initial communication.

This is not correct. If you have the Dialog in one socket connected to the router, and two phantoms in other sockets and that is all you have, then PLC will be used for the music transmission between Dialog and Phantoms. In most cases this works very well indeed. If you connect via optical to one phantom, then the other phantom will receive the left or right side of the stereo pair via PLC.

[Jean-Marie]

I would add that plc works great even when not on the same fuse.
I have 3 plugs in three different rooms, serviced by three different breakers on my distribution panel, and I’m enjoying between 300 and 400 Mpbs between any pair, more than enough for any scenario I can think of.

Jean-Marie

[snbeall]

That is exactly my current scenario - Dialogue ethernet connected to cable modem/router and plugged into power - all in the utility closet where my central home starwired cable/cat5 hub distribution is located. The Phantoms are plugged in the greatroom which is close, but not necessarily on the same circuit (doubtful). Spark says that both Phantoms are PLC connected when working however. I do have problems with one of the Phantoms dropping - especially while streaming Apple Music via Airplay for some reason, but on occasion with Tidal.

So I'm trying to figure out how to get the Dialogue closer to the Phantoms with the hope of getting them all on the same circuit - or better yet on the same power/protector strip (side question: can a single power strip and plug really handle the current draw of two Phantoms at volume 70????!!)

I have no cable outlet or Ethernet in the vicinity of the Phantoms, so not sure how I'd get the Dialogue it's connection to router and internet. Will an Apple Airport wireless Ethernet Bridge work in this situation (although I may admittedly be misunderstanding the Ethernet Bridging principle here). Other suggestions??

[Dvlt PhD]

As a new owner, I am learning the nuances of networking these things with Dialogue. Is it true that the "preferred" connection that Phantom will seek first is PLC?! I have always thought data over house electrical wiring was a relatively poor quality way to handle data - sort of the poor mans Ethernet? I would think WiFi would be higher quality transmission. Is it the stability of wired connection and avoiding interference the goal? I presume if they are wired with Ethernet - at least one leg it would be superior to PLC? And if so, which leg? My problem is that I do not have a cable, nor Ethernet port near my Phantom position. Am I giving up quality relying upon PLC?
Thanks
Scott

As I understand the communication business between Phantoms and Dialog, they use first PLC (or alternatively also Bluetooth) for establishing a connection and for getting ready for streaming.

The streaming is then done via the options that you define. In my case I have all three items wired and part of my LAN. So I can tell the player (MacMini/Roon/Dirac) respectively dialog to send the data by wire, bluetooth or fiberoptic cable. Note that you must configure both Phantoms and Dialog to accept the option that you prefer.

In my case I send a fiberoptic cable to the Dialog, disable Airplay and Bluetooth in both Phantoms and check if they show their ethernet connection. Dialog then receives the music by optical and streams to the Phantoms by ethernet. This allows also for HiRez, which would be downsampled if you used Airplay via Bluetooth (or ethernet).

Conclusion for your problem: try to connect them to your LAN. If not, use the Bluetooth option. PLC is only for initial communication.

Enjoy.

Hi, Mohmm

Do you use a mobile device to control your library on the Mac Mini's Roon?

Thanks.

[Jean-Marie]

<snip>(side question: can a single power strip and plug really handle the current draw of two Phantoms at volume 70????!!)<snip>

Yes, that shall not be a problem at all. I don’t know where in the world you are living, but in France for instance, you can draw 16A from a regular plug, which under 220V is 3520W. Your pair of phantoms, even at 70 are likely to draw a lot less. Don’t get “fooled” believing the 4500W of the gold is drawn like this from the AC. First 4500W is a peak power drawn for a very short fraction of time to achieve very deep basses (SAM technology). So even at volume 70, you are likely under 10W of power from an RMS perspective, which is what counts from the AC’s perspective. 

Jean-Marie

[snbeall]

Sorry, I had not seen your response, Jean-Marie. Well, unless there is some difference between our wiring (mine is US multiunit high rise condo construction circa 2006), I shouldn't have any problem - nor any need to move my equipment (300-400Mpbs?? Who needs cat5 Ethernet?!). Perhaps I just need to reset everything and start over with configuration to see if it gets any more stable... I have a new respect for PLC.

[jonstatt]

I would add that plc works great even when not on the same fuse.
I have 3 plugs in three different rooms, serviced by three different breakers on my distribution panel, and I’m enjoying between 300 and 400 Mpbs between any pair, more than enough for any scenario I can think of.

Jean-Marie

That depends on the wiring in the property which is why I put a caveat for this For example in my house the throughput drops to just 15% of max throughout between fuses.