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Phantom Gold Confusion & Expert Pro Question
#11
(02-Jan-2018, 22:03)etch Wrote: @Johnnydev,

Why are you saying this "from another planet"? Does it seem so weird what I'm saying? No I'm definitely not from another brand.

@ogs,

I know about the Kii Threes and it was between them and the Phantoms. Hence my frustration, although I'm afraid now that the Kii three discussions and reviews might be just another hype train as well...

Anyone can give some insight if the expert pro line holds up to traditional high-end electronics?

You should probable also consider the Dutch & Dutch 8c. Some prefer them to the Kiis, and they are cheaper.
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#12
@Confused

Good point. But that was in a room, I don't know with speakers I don't know... And I couldn't compare to other electronics. I agree with you though. I need to find a way to compare this at a showroom somewhere...
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#13
hi etch

Thanks for the interesting observations. I am happy with my golds having heard details on them that I have never picked up from music I've been listening to for 40 years. I'm using the golds as bookshelf speakers in a study and getting better results than from by Bryston / B&W 804 plus DB1 sub in the living room. So no complaints here.

But you clearly have better ears than me, and a more objective approach to comparison, and your reference to using studio monitors has me intrigued. What DAC are you using may I ask and are you controlling gain/volume on that or at the source?

thanks
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#14
etch opens a great door with his thread. Head to head system evaluations Phantom vs "the audiophile world". In the pix below you can see my evaluation setup. Wilson/Levinson's vs Gold Phantoms head to head (ignore the rear woofer on the couch). As a life long tweaker this is quite a journey. I have outboard eq and sig gen gear along with my ears (and those of some friends), and as with etch the most significant observation to date is that Phantom's are great for "LOUD" and AudioVideo, the Wilson's win on Jazz,symphonic, acoustic and vocal.
Ongoing fiddling with Phantom eq and time alignments continues.....






   
   
Levinson 33 amps, Wilson Grand Slamm S3's, Levinson 32 ref pre and ad/da, Basis Ovation and Rega 40 with JSpall custom tone arms, Lyra, Ortofon & Grado cartridges, Marantz AV 8801, PSAudio phono pre, Devialet Dialog w  5 Gold Phantoms, Wilson powered subwoofer, Watch center, Wilson surrounds, Kaleidescape Movie server, Crestron AV controller and switch, 120 MBS docsis3 modem, 20 MBS xdsl modem, Peplink balance 20 router, Ruckus 802.11ac Wave 2 WAPS plus multi Pakedge WAPs, 48 port POE gigabit switch, NetGear 8TB NAS, Amazon Fire,ROKU and Apple TV gen 4, 12 core Mac Pro, Macbook Air Retina, 65" and 50" Runco TV's. Blue sound node 2, OPPO BDP105D, DSpeaker AntiMode 2.0, Octava HDMI/Optical switch, cabling Nordost for analog, Cardas and wireworld for digital/optical.
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#15
(04-Jan-2018, 18:25)ondastar Wrote: etch opens a great door with his thread. Head to head system evaluations Phantom vs "the audiophile world". In the pix below you can see my evaluation setup. Wilson/Levinson's vs Gold Phantoms head to head (ignore the rear woofer on the couch). As a life long tweaker this is quite a journey. I have outboard eq and sig gen gear along with my ears (and those of some friends), and as with etch the most significant observation to date is that Phantom's are great for "LOUD" and AudioVideo, the Wilson's win on Jazz,symphonic, acoustic and vocal.
Ongoing fiddling with Phantom eq and time alignments continues.....

Very impressive setup would already be a major understatement. 
I’m really interested in your conclusions. 

The price difference must be quite striking!

Jean-Marie
MacBook Air M2 -> RAAT/Air -> WiFi -> PLC -> Ethernet -> Devialet 220pro with Core Infinity (upgraded from 120) -> AperturA Armonia
France
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#16
Jean-Marie merci et bienvenue.
I'll add observational particulars to this thread as I continue the tweaks, and your point on price performance is very valid... my theory being "how close can you get a Phantom system to a "reference audiophile system" for a fraction of the price.
The Wilson's are voiced and time aligned for the listening space and have the soundstage magic that is "once heard- never forgotten", and the Levinson electronics are identical to the units that David Wilson used when developing the X1 GrandSlamm's.
Using a lot of elbow grease moving the Phantoms around to find a satisfying soundstage is ongoing, and not there yet, but for Blade Runner 2049 plenty fine.
Levinson 33 amps, Wilson Grand Slamm S3's, Levinson 32 ref pre and ad/da, Basis Ovation and Rega 40 with JSpall custom tone arms, Lyra, Ortofon & Grado cartridges, Marantz AV 8801, PSAudio phono pre, Devialet Dialog w  5 Gold Phantoms, Wilson powered subwoofer, Watch center, Wilson surrounds, Kaleidescape Movie server, Crestron AV controller and switch, 120 MBS docsis3 modem, 20 MBS xdsl modem, Peplink balance 20 router, Ruckus 802.11ac Wave 2 WAPS plus multi Pakedge WAPs, 48 port POE gigabit switch, NetGear 8TB NAS, Amazon Fire,ROKU and Apple TV gen 4, 12 core Mac Pro, Macbook Air Retina, 65" and 50" Runco TV's. Blue sound node 2, OPPO BDP105D, DSpeaker AntiMode 2.0, Octava HDMI/Optical switch, cabling Nordost for analog, Cardas and wireworld for digital/optical.
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#17
Sir, I bow before you and your devotion to the hobby! And am very interested in your findings as well.

Could you indulge me a few questions and then a few comments? How are you processing Cinema 5.5 to the 5 Phantoms? I realize that you are making a comparison so may have placed your Phantom heights to match the Wilsons, but I would be curious what the Phantoms are like at more conventional heights - all matched to the center height. Have you any experience on lower height stands?

Comments: This illustrates perfectly one of the the Phantoms greatest strengths IMHO. I find the mass of equipment typically necessary for audiophile performance extremely distracting, not only musically, but PARTICULARLY for cinema. Imagine this same scene with only the three Phantoms across the front field. Now imagine them in a matte black (perhaps wall mounted - and boundary corrected - with power cable hidden). For me to become fully involved in the music - but even more so the cinema - I like for the speakers/equipment to disappear. Unless one closes ones eyes (difficult with cinema), the visual distraction destroys the illusion for me - even the music. Not only do the Phantoms tend to acoustically disappear, but because of their small unconventional form factor, they visually tend to as well. To my ear/mind connection that alone Elevates their sound (pun intended).
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#18
It made me chuckle just looking at those tiny little balls of joy being dwarfed by those giant beasts of floorstanders; with probably a lot of other big boxes out of shot to power them and control them Smile

I know that's not the point of the thread but a true visualisation of one of their great strengths and the main reason I bought them as I, along with a lot of other I imagine simply wouldn't have the space to put those big bad boys!

More on topic - I also see they are very, very close the rear, and side walls. Did you move them into an equally open space for the comparison to make it fair?
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#19
Fair enough. My apologies for taking it a bit off topic there, but ingrained there was a bit of response to the original post in how these might compete/compare to “true audiophile” speakers. My point is that the form factor/technology/price point must figure into the perceptions/audiophile experience.

BTW, I am contrasting my listening against some AMT based Martin Logan’s which are much more forward in the midrange, but also more congested at times and remind me they are there. The Phantoms simply disappear better. SAM? I have also noticed them open up with break in. My room is also very lively and likely the opposite of the original poster - a large (1000 sq foot), hardwood over concrete floor, wedge shaped, 10 foot ceiling, urban condo with lots of lightly draped windows with the speakers at the rounded point of the wedge. Room itself is almost one giant horn of sorts... diffused sidewall/rearwall reflections. And I listen to a lot of electronic/ambient. The combination works well for my aging ears...
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#20
(06-Jan-2018, 19:41)snbeall Wrote: Fair enough. My apologies for taking it a bit off topic there

I meant me not you Smile

My point on size and practicality in general had nothing to do with sound quality 

Your point about not seeing where the sound is coming from in order for movies and music to feel and sound more is definitely valid
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