Phantom white vs silver + general impressions

[AaronG]

Laser Show projected on the ceiling.

[MountainGuy]

You guys are hilarious.

[midi]

I have one white Phantom now a few day and I compared it direct with my D120/Athoms GT1.

My first impressions are:

- first installation with the Dialog was not without bugs; I had to start the update process three times until it has worked;

- the Phantom has very deep bass, but with SAM (100 %) the Athoms aren´t far away (for such a small speaker great !), and perhaps a litte bit more unobtrusive than the Phantom; I think two Phantoms could be too much;

- in a direct comparison (also with only one Athom) the Phantom acts a little but dull; the mods and highs from the Athoms are more precise and detailed; in quieter songs with just a few instruments the difference is easy to hear (I asked my wife in a blind test and she could immediately hear the difference out - she´s not an audiophile ;-))

- in an one to one comparison the three-dimensionality seems to be better with the Athom (I think in a stereo-stereo comparison with two speakers on each side it would be similar);

- both have a got dynamic and are fast;

- Spark is better than I tought - no real problems. So the functionality speaks clearly for the Phantoms if you first purpose is wireless streaming and no USB connection (until AIR is so buggy as it is today).

So for the moment (perhaps I get a second Phantom for further tests), the Phantom seems to be a very good second system, but I am not sure if is good enough to replace my D120/Athoms as my first system.

[MountainGuy]

Midi, thanks for your post and doing a one single Atohm test. I've read other posts like yours which states the Expert system is clearly better. These give me pause on the Phantom.

However, two points could improve the Phantom.

1. Break in - Some Phantom owners have noted that as the Phantom breaks in, the mids and highs sound noticeably better. It would be interesting if you could make the comparisoin again after about a hundred hours.

2. Removing the small grill in front. I've always listened to speakers without the grill as I think I can discern a difference even with the mesh fabric. The front cover on the PHantom is a made of solid material and I've chat with at least one owner who said removing the grill produced a positive change.

Thanks again.

MtnGuy

[Confused]

Based on my visit to the Oxford Audio Phantom event this week, I have some observations that might be of interest to anyone debating whether or not to spend the extra few pounds (Euros / dollars or whatever) on the Silver. Previous posts here suggest that the white and silvers sound much the same, and with respect to ultimate sound pressure levels the whites are all you need. I guess there is some logic here and for many people this will more or less hold true.

However, there was one occasion during the day when we managed to hit the limits of a Phantom. I have to emphasise that this happened once, on one track, and during the rest of a very long day, all the Phantoms I listened to, at reasonably high, with some demanding music, massive bass sometimes, all sounded like they were cruising.

In OAC's smaller demo room (considered by some to be the better sounding room) we listened to some white Phantoms. To me, these sounded better than the silvers did in the larger (maybe not quite a good sounding) room. We then switched to the silvers, which in this room sounded excellent, OAC's Alasdair played his some of his much loved Nils Lofgren, and yes, with this material the little Phantoms really were starting their trick of sounding like a 10 or 20K system, very impressive indeed. Later we played Rudimental's "Spoons". Now for those who don't know, this track has a three level bass section, with successive bass tones dropping to a very speaker demanding section which is at the border of being felt rather than heard. For the first two tones, the Phanoms were perfect the upper and lower bass being very balanced, not really sounding any different to my own KEF Blades. (in fact you have to get speaker and seating positioning just right with the Blades to sound as even as the Phantoms did!) However, with the very lowest sub bass section, for the first and only time of the day the Phantoms did struggle slightly, and for a few fractions of a second after the bass section, you could hear the volume of the Phantom drop slightly. Now this is a very extreme electronic track, but I'm guessing the current involved in trying to produce the almost sub bass section is huge, hence the Phantom was protecting itself with a little thermal management, hence dropping the volume back momentarily. Also, in fairness, it was a warm day and very (very!) hot in the demo room. To be clear, this is not a criticism of the Phantoms, I have listened to this slightly notorious track on a number of systems, in some cases the sub bass section is simply not produced, it is not there, on my old JBL's with 400w 12" bass drivers and other some other speakers I have heard, this bass section turns to a messy mush. The Phantoms had a fair crack at it and held their own! The point being, that yes, it is just possible to hit the limits of a Phantom. So depending on how you plan to use them, what type of music you like and so on, it might just be worth the extra few pennies to get the silvers.

In terms of the debate of how powerful is a 3000w Phantom? The answer is very powerful! NickB and myself were quizzing the Devialet's Mathieu Pernod on this subject. It is fair to say that he didn't look like he really wanted to answer, he preferred to talk about it being fully active, SAM etc, and dodged the question. I think NickB and myself drifted into a good cop / bad cop routine (curiously, I ended up as bad cop), and we did get some info in the end. The point is that the Phantom amps are designed specifically for the Phantom. Due mainly to the HBI bass system, the Phantom is more or less a 1 ohm load, so the Phantom amps are all about current delivery. That said, depending on how you look at this figures, the Phantom Silver amp is indeed more powerful than an Expert range amp! The figures don't really compare with that for something designed for normal speaker loads, but if you really want a number, maybe 400w RMS. (Gosh!) It's no wonder that that they sound like a mini night club.

One other teeny tiny nugget of information we got, SAM is there for the bass and midrange, but not for the tweeter, it simply doesn't need it, so it would seem.

[Vince_JP]

Based on my visit to the Oxford Audio Phantom event this week, I have some observations that might be of interest to anyone debating whether or not to spend the extra few pounds (Euros / dollars or whatever) on the Silver.  Previous posts here suggest that the white and silvers sound much the same, and with respect to ultimate sound pressure levels the whites are all you need.  I guess there is some logic here and for many people this will more or less hold true.

However, there was one occasion during the day when we managed to hit the limits of a Phantom.  I have to emphasise that this happened once, on one track, and during the rest of a very long day, all the Phantoms I listened to, at reasonably high, with some demanding music, massive bass sometimes, all sounded like they were cruising.

In OAC's smaller demo room (considered by some to be the better sounding room) we listened to some white Phantoms.  To me, these sounded better than the silvers did in the larger (maybe not quite a good sounding) room.  We then switched to the silvers, which in this room sounded excellent, OAC's Alasdair played his some of his much loved Nils Lofgren, and yes, with this material the little Phantoms really were starting their trick of sounding like a 10 or 20K system, very impressive indeed.  Later we played Rudimental's "Spoons".  Now for those who don't know, this track has a three level bass section, with successive bass tones dropping to a very speaker demanding section which is at the border of being felt rather than heard.  For the first two tones, the Phanoms were perfect the upper and lower bass being very balanced, not really sounding any different to my own KEF Blades.  (in fact you have to get speaker and seating positioning just right with the Blades to sound as even as the Phantoms did!)  However, with the very lowest sub bass section, for the first and only time of the day the Phantoms did struggle slightly, and for a few fractions of a second after the bass section, you could hear the volume of the Phantom drop slightly.  Now this is a very extreme electronic track, but I'm guessing the current involved in trying to produce the almost sub bass section is huge, hence the Phantom was protecting itself with a little thermal management, hence dropping the volume back momentarily.  Also, in fairness, it was a warm day and very (very!) hot in the demo room.  To be clear, this is not a criticism of the Phantoms, I have listened to this slightly notorious track on a number of systems, in some cases the sub bass section is simply not produced, it is not there, on my old JBL's with 400w 12" bass drivers and other some other speakers I have heard, this bass section turns to a messy mush.  The Phantoms had a fair crack at it and held their own!  The point being, that yes, it is just possible to hit the limits of a Phantom.  So depending on how you plan to use them, what type of music you like and so on, it might just be worth the extra few pennies to get the silvers.

In terms of the debate of how powerful is a 3000w Phantom?  The answer is very powerful!  NickB and myself were quizzing the Devialet's Mathieu Pernod on this subject.  It is fair to say that he didn't look like he really wanted to answer, he preferred to talk about it being fully active, SAM etc, and dodged the question.  I think NickB and myself drifted into a good cop / bad cop routine (curiously, I ended up as bad cop), and we did get some info in the end. The point is that the Phantom amps are designed specifically for the Phantom.  Due mainly to the HBI bass system, the Phantom is more or less a 1 ohm load, so the Phantom amps are all about current delivery.  That said, depending on how you look at this figures, the Phantom Silver amp is indeed more powerful than an Expert range amp!  The figures don't really compare with that for something designed for normal speaker loads, but if you really want a number, maybe 400w RMS.  (Gosh!)  It's no wonder that that they sound like a mini night club.

One other teeny tiny nugget of information we got, SAM is there for the bass and midrange, but not for the tweeter, it simply doesn't need it, so it would seem.

Thanks a lot for sharing this!

[NickB]

Based on my visit to the Oxford Audio Phantom event this week, I have some observations that might be of interest to anyone debating whether or not to spend the extra few pounds (Euros / dollars or whatever) on the Silver. Previous posts here suggest that the white and silvers sound much the same, and with respect to ultimate sound pressure levels the whites are all you need. I guess there is some logic here and for many people this will more or less hold true.

However, there was one occasion during the day when we managed to hit the limits of a Phantom. I have to emphasise that this happened once, on one track, and during the rest of a very long day, all the Phantoms I listened to, at reasonably high, with some demanding music, massive bass sometimes, all sounded like they were cruising.

In OAC's smaller demo room (considered by some to be the better sounding room) we listened to some white Phantoms. To me, these sounded better than the silvers did in the larger (maybe not quite a good sounding) room. We then switched to the silvers, which in this room sounded excellent, OAC's Alasdair played his some of his much loved Nils Lofgren, and yes, with this material the little Phantoms really were starting their trick of sounding like a 10 or 20K system, very impressive indeed. Later we played Rudimental's "Spoons". Now for those who don't know, this track has a three level bass section, with successive bass tones dropping to a very speaker demanding section which is at the border of being felt rather than heard. For the first two tones, the Phanoms were perfect the upper and lower bass being very balanced, not really sounding any different to my own KEF Blades. (in fact you have to get speaker and seating positioning just right with the Blades to sound as even as the Phantoms did!) However, with the very lowest sub bass section, for the first and only time of the day the Phantoms did struggle slightly, and for a few fractions of a second after the bass section, you could hear the volume of the Phantom drop slightly. Now this is a very extreme electronic track, but I'm guessing the current involved in trying to produce the almost sub bass section is huge, hence the Phantom was protecting itself with a little thermal management, hence dropping the volume back momentarily. Also, in fairness, it was a warm day and very (very!) hot in the demo room. To be clear, this is not a criticism of the Phantoms, I have listened to this slightly notorious track on a number of systems, in some cases the sub bass section is simply not produced, it is not there, on my old JBL's with 400w 12" bass drivers and other some other speakers I have heard, this bass section turns to a messy mush. The Phantoms had a fair crack at it and held their own! The point being, that yes, it is just possible to hit the limits of a Phantom. So depending on how you plan to use them, what type of music you like and so on, it might just be worth the extra few pennies to get the silvers.

In terms of the debate of how powerful is a 3000w Phantom? The answer is very powerful! NickB and myself were quizzing the Devialet's Mathieu Pernod on this subject. It is fair to say that he didn't look like he really wanted to answer, he preferred to talk about it being fully active, SAM etc, and dodged the question. I think NickB and myself drifted into a good cop / bad cop routine (curiously, I ended up as bad cop), and we did get some info in the end. The point is that the Phantom amps are designed specifically for the Phantom. Due mainly to the HBI bass system, the Phantom is more or less a 1 ohm load, so the Phantom amps are all about current delivery. That said, depending on how you look at this figures, the Phantom Silver amp is indeed more powerful than an Expert range amp! The figures don't really compare with that for something designed for normal speaker loads, but if you really want a number, maybe 400w RMS. (Gosh!) It's no wonder that that they sound like a mini night club.

One other teeny tiny nugget of information we got, SAM is there for the bass and midrange, but not for the tweeter, it simply doesn't need it, so it would seem.

Yes the other thing which needs to be made clear I think is that he said there were 4 amp modules so definitely 1 for each speaker unit - ie 2 for bass 1 for midrange and 1 for treble and that (as I understood) they were not necessarily the same power (for mid and treble)

Will try the Rudimental track on my system and see what happens.

[frix]

thanks for the impressions, confused.

So what do you think about their midrange and treble?

[Dom]

Very good write up, confused.

[Confused]

To respond to @frix with respect to mid range and treble (well you did ask). I need to be clear that I come from a position where day to day, I'm used to KEF Blades and a D800. Chatting to another forum member during the demo, the conversation drifted into "it's hard to go back. So it is probably not the most shocking news that the mids are not as good as D800 powered Blades, nor as good as the dual mono Sash 2's that were playing in OAC's other demo room at the time. So no, they are not as good as a $50,000 system as early Phantom advertising suggested. So versus the best, the mids did lack a little detail, insight and sparkle. Nothing wrong with the mids or treble though, no sibilance or harshness or other bad things, it's just that there are better out there. But hay, two silvers and a Dialog are less than 4k, for the entire system, streamer DAC, amp, speakers and cables. The Sasha's next door had cabling that would cost more than the Phantoms. Some folk on here have streamers that cost more than £4K. So the question is, how would the mids compare to a conventional 4k system? Well that takes the Expert range out of the equation, I'm guessing you could get a system for 4k with better mids, this would take some investigating, but you would probably end up with small stand-mounts, which would be crushed into submission by the Phantoms bass performance. For perspective, during the demo F1eng played a track, I'm guessing that this was the Kodo Heartbeat drummers, that he has mentioned previously on this forum? The power and realism of the drums on this track was staggering, to be clear, not staggering "considering the size of the Phantoms" but staggering in it's own right, by any standards. I have never listened to this on the Blades, (I must try this sometime though!), but if I'm honest, if I had been lead blindfolded into the demo room I might just have guessed I was listening to the Blades. Remarkable! How Devialet have achieved this and left any budget all for the mids and tweeters is almost unfathomable. I'm still trying to work out at what price point I would take a "conventional" system over a pair of silvers. It is well north of 4k that's for sure.....

As a final point to note, I did listen to some different white and silver Phantoms during the day, and I'm figuring that they are all very new. Others have mentioned the mids improve with a few hundred hours of use..... They might actually be better than I am suggesting here.

As a final note, what do I think of them overall? Well, I want one, but I'm still trying to think of a sensible reason to buy one! Maybe one in the bathroom? I have never listened to music in the bedroom. I'm also thinking of giving one to my local pub landlord, the pub has a most splendid choice of music on the jukebox, but rubbish speakers.... Though if I did this, i'd probably drink myself to death living in the pub listening to music everyday. Perhaps one for the garden? Maybe an in car Phantom if I can convert to 12v?