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Phantoms - mids
#1
Been reading extensively about the Phantoms on this forum, and posting a few scattered questions. 

Some of the challenges such as lag or streaming issues can be overcome.  The primary question for me however is how far behind is the Phantom's midrange compared to other speakers.  There has been a number of comments from dealers to end users that the regular Devialet 'Expert' series with a good speaker still surpasses the Phansom - albeit at significantly higher cost. For vocals and many acoustic music, the mids is the critical bandwidth for me. 

So my questions regarding regular speakers having better mids than the Phantom: 

1. Regarding better mids, are we talking only about systems at a much higher price, or can some systems at the same price as the Phantoms surpass the mids on the Phantoms?  For example, lets take the relatively 'budget priced' KEF LS50, does the Phantom surpass the mids on these? 

Or perhaps a Omega Alnico with a small but high quality 2 watt SET amp + DAC which can come in under Phantom's price. Would the Phantom be inferior in the mids?  

Of course, one is gaining on the bottom octave with the Phantom. 

2. How wide is the gap in the mids and highs between the Phantom and other sub $10K systems?  For example, lets take the Devialet 120 with Atohm GT1 vs Phantoms. 

Thanks!
MtnGuy
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#2
Please forgive me for pointing out the obvious here, but you are surely the best judge of how the Phantom mid-range compares to that of other speakers, at least to your ears.  Could you arrange a comparative demonstration?  I'd expect that would answer your questions more satisfactorily than other people's opinions, which will necessarily reflect personal taste.
Roon (Mac Mini), Wilson Benesch Full Circle, Expert 1000 Pro CI, Kaiser Chiara
Warwickshire, UK
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#3
(26-May-2015, 15:00)thumb5 Wrote: Please forgive me for pointing out the obvious here, but you are surely the best judge of how the Phantom mid-range compares to that of other speakers, at least to your ears.  Could you arrange a comparative demonstration?  I'd expect that would answer your questions more satisfactorily than other people's opinions, which will necessarily reflect personal taste.

Not possible for me where I am at. In addition auditions in audio shops have always gone poorly for me - speakers are never broken in, 20 speakers in the room mess things up, lots of time rooms are overtreated making music lifeless. Or the opposite the room is so perfect and the other equipment in the chain is so expensive. In home auditions do not happen here, only buy and return - rather risky if the seller wants to be a jerk.

Peoples' in home experiences and comparisons are very valuable. 

He could also buy both keep one or send them both back if he does not like either. For me I would rather ask around before I get serious.
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#4
(26-May-2015, 16:06)karastav Wrote:
(26-May-2015, 15:00)thumb5 Wrote: Please forgive me for pointing out the obvious here, but you are surely the best judge of how the Phantom mid-range compares to that of other speakers, at least to your ears.  Could you arrange a comparative demonstration?  I'd expect that would answer your questions more satisfactorily than other people's opinions, which will necessarily reflect personal taste.

Not possible for me where I am at. In addition auditions in audio shops have always gone poorly for me - speakers are never broken in, 20 speakers in the room mess things up, lots of time rooms are overtreated making music lifeless. Or the opposite the room is so perfect and the other equipment in the chain is so expensive. In home auditions do not happen here, only buy and return - rather risky if the seller wants to be a jerk.

Peoples' in home experiences and comparisons are very valuable. 

He could also buy both keep one or send them both back if he does not like either. For me I would rather ask around before I get serious.

This is the million $ question.  We all know the bass is outstanding but how does the rest compare?
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#5
I am waiting to see if a dealer near me will get the phantoms to compare with the 120. If you add up a pair of phantoms with branch stands and the dialog the total comes to almost the same as the 120. Was going to order straight from devialet but now I think I'm going to compare them first.
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#6
My opinion is - over all the l'ensemble beats the phantoms hell out and I'm not alone


Sent by iPad
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#7
(26-May-2015, 21:07)Elztalbiker Wrote: My opinion is - over all the l'ensemble beats the phantoms hell out and I'm not alone


Sent by iPad

What does that mean? Please describe your opinion? Is it taste, linearity, in which configuration?
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#8
More details, air, space, exactly bass, live atmosphere - test it by yourself. Devialet 120 with Atohm GT1 SE vs. Phantoms inclusive. Dialog or 7000 Euros vs. 3700 Euros. Dev 120 with Focal Aria 926 is also fabulous.. But for 3700 Euros the Stereo Phantoms are unbeatable.


Sent by iPad
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#9
(26-May-2015, 21:53)Elztalbiker Wrote: More details, air, space, exactly bass, live atmosphere  


Sent by iPad

These are exactly the attributes in which the Phantoms are strong. In my living room they beat my old B&W 802, however not driven by a D120. I find the Phantoms very room dependent. In an other room, smaller (2.5x4m), they excited room resonances at much lower volumes stronger, so the excellent SQ I have in the living room could not be achieved. 
I really recommend to compare the systems in the room they will be used. With the Phantoms you have very limited possibiliies to adjust the setup taking the room in consideration. The D120 has several possibilities and you can choose many options including speakers, bass treatment ... Since you can return the Phantoms within 15 days everyone interested can order and test when money/credit card is available as you will be charged when ordering. Maybe the local dealer can deliver for testing the alternative set. Use Tidal or Qobuz in Hifi quality, both offer 30 days free testperiods, or use a source with optical output you can feed in both systems. Maybe your dealer is also interested in test listening the Phantoms and brings his equipment or what you would like to compare.
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#10
I have compared my standard Phantoms with my D120+LS50's and they outdo the LS50's in the same way that LS50's outdid all other equivalently-sized speakers when they were released. The midrange is more neutral, solid, and composed, especially at higher volumes. LS50's sound more like traditional boxes by comparison. (This is all relative; I still think LS50's are amazing).
LS50's do nevertheless have a winsome, sweet lower treble that makes them highly listenable, working in their favour for lesser-quality recordings.
JRiver v24 (Windows) >> 220Pro/CI >> Tellurium-Q Black >> PMC Twenty5.23 + two REL T7i. One White Phantom.
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