Sonos

[Confused]

There's a very good sounding Dutch modification of the Sonos Connect on the market as well: http://www.magnahifi.com/index.php/en/

I do possess one and I can tell you: it's sounding great on my D250

This looks interesting, how does it compare to AIR, sound quality wise? (Maybe you've never done the comparison?)

[Charlemagne]

Surely I do use them both. Air (via ethernet in my case) is sounding just a tiny bit better, I must say. I still do use the Sonos because it's easier to access and less fuzz in using in comparison to the Air streamer.

The Magna Ultimo Sonos upgrade is worth every penny, I can tell you. On a Dutch forum, I organised several shootouts, beween the standard Sonos Connect and the modifications of Herr Doctor Gert Volk from Germany and the Magna Ultimo from Holland. The last one was sounding the best, I can tell you. Also the Bluesound Node was involved. It sounded better then the standard Sonos, but worse then the both mod's of the Sonos Connect.

The modification results in more focus and stage, a better controle of the bass and in the disapearing of the graining in the high tones, as is showing the standard Sonos.

But overall the Air streamer was the winner, I must admit. Also because it's offering the possibility of using highres titles.

The Magna Ultimo mod is only usefull is you're using a quality DAC, like the one in the Devialet or likewise. Details about the modification you can find on the website I mentioned before: http://www.magnahifi.com/index.php/en/

[Confused]

Surely I do use them both. Air (via ethernet in my case) is sounding just a tiny bit better, I must say. I still do use the Sonos because it's easier to access and less fuzz in using in comparison to the Air streamer.

A very interesting post. A number of people on this forum have posted details of "computer alternatives" for the Devialet, and none have concluded that in terms of pure sound quality, that they are better than AIR. There is one exception to this to date, and that is the Totaldac D1. From what has been written, this appears to be a very impressive piece of kit. However, it is also a little expensive!

[Jwg1749]

I agree: an "audiophile" Sonos Connect would be a great addition to the range. They could simply get someone else to design it for them. Given that there are some very good Sonos upgrades around (e.g. Wyred4Sound and Fidelity Audio), there's obviously a (small) market for this kind of thing. They'd have to be a bit careful about the marketing, so as not to make the standard Connect look too inferior.

There's a very good sounding Dutch modification of the Sonos Connect on the market as well: http://www.magnahifi.com/index.php/en/

I do possess one and I can tell you: it's sounding great on my D250

Hi Charlemagne,
thanks for alerting us to the Magna Sonos upgrades. As I understand it, this upgrades the clock and PSU. On the face of it, it looks similar to the W4S upgrade. Good to have another option anyway.
I do think that an upgraded Sonos is capable of competing with the best streamers out there in terms of SQ. And in terms of multi-room use and GUI, Sonos is king.
Matt

[PhilP]

I understand that Sonos supports CD-quality streaming from various music services including Qobuz and WiMP. How seamless is the integration and how good is the sound?

Thanks.

[thumb5]

I use Qobuz HiFi both with the Desktop player on a Mac through Ethernet AIR and via Sonos ZP90 aka Connect (albeit one that's been "breathed on" by Rick Cullen). I find myself listening to Qobuz about as often as my own locally-stored music.

The integration between Sonos and Qobuz is good, although it does inherit some of the quirkiness of the Desktop player. For example, it is counter-intuitive to me that favourite Albums, Artists, etc. are maintained independently from each other and that they don't seem to sort into alphabetical order (they seem to be presented in most-recently-added order). Perhaps I'm missing some clever options there, but I've got used to it now. Anyway, my point is that's how it seems to work both on the Desktop player and via Sonos, for better or worse. Also, I've never had any reliability problems, drop-outs etc. streaming Qobuz via Sonos - it just works.

As far as sound quality goes, as you'd expect there is no difference between playing Qobuz HiFi (16/44) or local CD rips through Sonos. I've also spent quite a bit of time comparing Qobuz Hifi streamed through Sonos versus the Desktop player through Ethernet AIR, and have just about convinced myself that AIR sounds marginally better. The convenience of using Sonos beats AIR hands down, though, and it's far more family-friendly, so it's what gets used for anything but really serious listening. I'm sure the difference in sound quality would be more obvious with a standard Sonos unit, although I've had no reason to try it.

Hope that's useful…if you have any specific questions, I'm happy to have a shot at them.

Ian

[Charlemagne]

The integration between Sonos and Qobuz is good, although it does inherit some of the quirkiness of the Desktop player. For example, it is counter-intuitive to me that favourite Albums, Artists, etc. are maintained independently from each other and that they don't seem to sort into alphabetical order (they seem to be presented in most-recently-added order). Perhaps I'm missing some clever options there, but I've got used to it now. Anyway, my point is that's how it seems to work both on the Desktop player and via Sonos, for better or worse. Also, I've never had any reliability problems, drop-outs etc. streaming Qobuz via Sonos - it just works.

Ian

I do fully agree with Ian, Qobuz does work fine. I don't hear any difference between my own CD-rips and the streaming through Qobuz. I have spent many months to do the ripping of my CD collection. Now I do find out that most of my music is on Qobuz, sounding exactly as good and without hiccups and seamlessly. The search function of Qobuz is far better than the one Spotify provides. Being a classical music lover, I do find Spotify a real disaster when I do want to find a particular concert. With Qobuz it is far more intuitif and faster. For instance you can search on Composer, Orchestra, Conductor, soloists, title of the concert etc.

Playing Qobuz with the desktop ap on my HTPC via Air does sound marginally better the via my modified Sonos, but Sonos is far more easier to use, I agree.

As I told before upgrading the Sonos is worth every penny, so let somebody "breath on it".

Even Ian's little problem can easily be solved. Here is your "clever option": just go to the desktop app and pull down the pop menu by clicking in the box next to your log in name (R corner above) and click on "preferences". There you will find the option how to order your playlists. Choose "alphabetical" and the problem is solved. Once the setup is done your playlists will also appear in alphabetical order in the Sonos app.

Here is a screenshot of my Qobuz desktop app on my HTPC. It's in Dutch of course, but hopefully it ts helpful to you Ian. Karel

[thumb5]

Hello Karel - many thanks: I feel embarrassed, the option was right in front of me all along! Does this also change the sort order in the Sonos controller (I guess it should). Will try it as soon as I get chance.

I agree that Qobuz is particularly strong for (discovering) classical music.

[PhilP]

Ian, Karel,

Thanks for your detailed replies re. Qobuz. It's interesting that you both think it sounds a little better via AIR than via the modified Sonos Connect. I actually prefer my CD rips to streaming from Qobuz. I don't know why this should be - maybe issues with additional processes generating 'noise' during playback?

I'm getting fed up with having to walk across the room to change albums etc whilst using Qobuz desktop and the convenience of the Sonos would be much appreciated. The Wyred4sound Connect costs over £700 in the UK which seems a lot to pay just to listen to Qobuz (nearly 3 years subscription!).

Another option I'm considering is a Macbook Pro with enough SSD memory to store most of my ripped/downloaded music collection and to run Qobuz both streaming via AIR. £1400 and I won't have to move out of my chair at all .

IMO the jury is still out as far as streamers are concerned:
- The Aurender looks over-priced and provides no integration with Qobuz ... Yet.
- The Aries seems to be not quite good enough from a SQ perspective though according to Kunter you can pay a lot extra to make it sound good
- My Naim NDX doesn't really sound any better than iTunes/AIR and currently offers no Qobuz integration
- The Totaldac D1 Server is reportedly the best sounding solution but is expensive and it's not clear to me whether/how Qobuz integration works
- The Cubox project is intriguing but a bit fiddly and what will happen with future s/w updates. I have no idea whether it can be made to stream Qobuz.

Anyway, I like Qobuz and hope that they will survive their current financial issues. The planned launch of TIDAL (WiMP) in the UK this month won't help.

Thanks again, Philip

[thumb5]

[Mods: maybe we should ask for a new thread to continue this discussion?]

The Wyred4sound Connect costs over £700 in the UK which seems a lot to pay just to listen to Qobuz (nearly 3 years subscription!).

Well, if it was "just to listen to Qobuz" I'd be the first to agree. But I'd look at Sonos as a way to unify access to all the music you listen to, whether Internet radio, other streaming services or locally-stored. Their list of integrations with streaming services is pretty extensive and I think it could take a long time before the audiophile alternatives catch up (if they even try). Possibly irrelevant if Qobuz is all you need, of course.

Anyway, I like Qobuz and hope that they will survive their current financial issues.

Me too!