Sound like a 2:1 not Full Range speakers...IMO

[McChicken]

Hi Guys,
I'm not here to start a Flame war, just want to give my personal impressions of the Phantoms as a Stereo / HiFi / Music Enthusiast.

I would not call myself a Audiophile as I do think that they are more interested in fiddling with equipment than actually listening to what in my world it's all about...Listening to Music*
After I got my two silver Phantoms burned-in I have noticed that I find the sound coming out from them is quite similar to a 2:1 system ( Bookshelf + Sub)
And yes they Phantoms can produce massive amount of Bass, but not the bass I would expect from a large Full range speaker. Devialet have obviously focused on making an WOW factor to the ones that first listening to them as the Sub-bass sound is very obvious. What I miss is the the Melodic bass ( Mid-bass 80hz - 320hz )as well as the physical experience of i.e the Bass Kick drum. When producing/ mixing music you are targeting your sound towards a specific sound-stage. Especially music that should make you feel a groove you need to "put a spotlight" on things that makes the beat, both for the ears but also a physical experience.
IMO I would say that the Phantoms are GREAT for Home Theater use but not as much as a PURE music system, but it all comes down to what kind of music we listen to I myself is pretty groove oriented but that does not mean I don't want a pretty balances sound. It took me some hours of listening until I could pin-point to what the Phantoms DID NOT, as they do a lot of good things

I've put together a Spotify  "What is lacking" playlist that you can listen to.
https://open.spotify.com/user/mcchicken/...6vWcLq9ztt

- Samson For President, the Kick-drum and it's companion the bass should get you into the laid-back groove, but the drums sounds like they are made out of plastic.
- James Blake, when the Sub-bass sound comes in his voice does not sound normal anymore.
- Ronny Jordan ( 1993), here the Bass line IS the song and it is not presented as the main part
- Tom Mish, here there should be a clearly pumping bass and that is lacking
- Whilk & Misky, here they have produced a bass and beat sound that is like an "implosion" so instead of hitting your should feel "sucked-into" the groove.
- Nao, there is no "body "
- Benji Hughes, here the drums really sound like they're made out of plastic.
- Ibeyi, this is a VERY physical song with the massive deep hit, but it's lacking.

As mentioning , I'm not trying to start a Flame war or badmouth the Phantoms which are GREAT speakers, but for me personally ( my kind of music) they are better suited towards a Home Theater set-up then music only.
I have the Phantoms set-up on book-shelf stands , or just next to them a very solid 3 meter ( 10ft) long oak table

*Anyway, in my youth I used to professionally work as a sound engineer both in Studios and at Live gigs...and ok you need to understand what button to press but more so you need to have  "good ears" and know what different instrument should sound like. Secondly you do if the sound is not what to expect you will never be able to find solutions on what is wrong. The hardest part is always to find out what sounds that are missing, sounds that are to loud is quite easy

Would love to hear your objective opinion

[dmitrek]

Tell us more about your setup. What height are your phantoms at? What are the back and side walls distance from the speakers?

[martinskeem]

And what are we comparing to? No doubt there are better sounding speakers out there, also with better bass, but I have not found a combination of speakers, amp, dac, streamer (granted, the streamer in the dialog is only just better than nothing... ), that delivers better value or the convenience of the 2xphantoms and a dialog.


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[McChicken]

Tell us more about your setup. What height are your phantoms at? What are the back and side walls distance from the speakers?

Sorry , edited the post with this "I have the Phantoms set-up on book-shelf stands , or just next to them a very solid 3 meter ( 10ft) long oak table"

[McChicken]

And what are we comparing to? No doubt there are better sounding speakers out there, also with better bass, but I have not found a combination of speakers, amp, dac, streamer (granted, the streamer in the dialog is only just better than nothing... ), that delivers better value or the convenience of the 2xphantoms and a dialog.


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Hi Martinskeem,
as mentioning my intention is not to badmouth the Phantoms as they are a great product. However with forums like this people tend to get overly enthusiastic ( Fan boys) and a complete objective opinion does not show.
I'm giving my honest objective opinion, and I do have quite an extensive experience in active speakers hooked up to Sonos. And I'n not talking about silly money gear, I'm talking about set-ups below $ 10k

[jonstatt]

Would love to hear your objective opinion

I think this falls into the placement, placement, placement arena. To start to comprehend this, we need to state what is "wrong" with a 2.1 set-up vs a full range speaker. The answer is relatively easy. It is typically a low mid-range, higher end bass suck-out. The worst example of this is the Bose cube systems. They just about reach to the lower mids but do not have the ability to "fill the range out", and there is a complete gap in the higher bass, where the cubes don't reach and neither does the sub do it properly either. So you get this hump at the mid bass, then a suck-out until firmly into mid-range terroritory. This is a very common 2.1 scenario, it's just the Bose is one of the worst examples of it. However, it doesn't sound unpleasant either which is why Bose sell so well.

Now if we are to believe Devialet, the response is within +2/-2dB across the entire 16-25kHz range up to a certain volume level. There should be no suck-outs. What I also haven't seen is the crossover frequency from mid-range to bass drivers. But it shouldn't suffer at all from the 2.1 effect you described in principal.

I have a high-end system consisting of Kef Reference 4.2 monsters and Bryston power amplifiers. It sounds phenomenal. The Phantoms are in another room, but I did have them side by side for a while. I found that in certain positions the Phantom's would develop a response that is a bit like you described, while in other positions they would sound remarkably close to the Kef's. There are benefits of the Kef system overall which I won't go into now. But the 2.1 effect which I believe I understand only happened when the Phantoms were positioned either too close to a wall, or interestingly, too far away from them (I assume it was just creating different humps, dips around the mid-bass area). So your evaluation may be related to your positioning.

You have mentioned the lack of presence of the kick of a drum before. I have been trying to wrap my head around this because either the frequencies are reproduced at the right level or they are not. The feeling of a "kick" that you "feel" in your chest, is purely about shifting enough air at the right frequencies. I can certainly get that feeling in my set-up. So I need to try the tracks you mention and then I will feedback again. One of the actual advantages of the Phantom's over the Kef's is the sense of things being "live" like the instruments are in the room, including drums (e.g. Dead Can Dance - Yulunga with the volume cranked up).

As I said, I suspect that positioning/placement is what is causing all of your negative critique....and I have found the Phantoms are MUCH more fussy about positioning than the Kef's.

[McChicken]

Would love to hear your objective opinion

.... it shouldn't suffer at all from the 2.1 effect you described in principal.

... while in other positions they would sound remarkably close to the Kef's. There are benefits of the Kef system overall which I won't go into now. But the 2.1 effect which I believe I understand only happened when the Phantoms were positioned either too close to a wall, or interestingly, too far away from them (I assume it was just creating different humps, dips around the mid-bass area). So your evaluation may be related to your positioning.

As I said, I suspect that positioning/placement is what is causing all of your negative critique....and I have found the Phantoms are MUCH more fussy about positioning than the Kef's.

Thanks... Will experience with position / placement a bit I have previously experienced too close to walls or wall mounts destroying good speakers, that is why I do have them on stands...but also tried a reflective table surface.
I have heard that the Phantoms are positioning sensitive..contrary to what Devialet marketing have claimed.

[davidadamson]

I also mystifying though it sounds going a huge improvement in bass when I replaced the stands with the branch stands.
I don't know why as the previous stands were quite good and I don't see anything special I the branch stands except there looks


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[stonedragon]

Hi Guys,
I'm not here to start a Flame war, just want to give my personal impressions of the Phantoms as a Stereo / HiFi / Music Enthusiast.

I would not call myself a Audiophile as I do think that they are more interested in fiddling with equipment than actually listening to what in my world it's all  about...Listening to Music*
After I got my two silver Phantoms burned-in I have noticed that I find the sound coming out from them is quite similar to a 2:1 system ( Bookshelf + Sub)
And yes they Phantoms can produce massive amount of Bass, but not the bass I would expect from a large Full range speaker. Devialet have obviously focused on making an WOW factor to the ones that first listening to them as the Sub-bass sound is very obvious. What I miss is the the Melodic bass ( Mid-bass 80hz - 320hz )as well as the physical experience of i.e the Bass Kick drum. When producing/ mixing music you are targeting your sound towards a specific sound-stage. Especially music that should make you feel a groove you need to "put a spotlight" on things that makes the beat, both for the ears but also a physical experience.
IMO I would say that the Phantoms are GREAT for Home Theater use but not as much as a PURE music system, but it all comes down to what kind of music we listen to I myself is pretty groove oriented but that does not mean I don't want a pretty balances sound. It took me some hours of listening until I could pin-point to what the Phantoms DID NOT, as they do a lot of good things

I've put together a Spotify  "What is lacking" playlist that you can listen to.
https://open.spotify.com/user/mcchicken/...6vWcLq9ztt

- Samson For President, the Kick-drum and it's companion the bass should get you into the laid-back groove, but the drums sounds like they are made out of plastic.
- James Blake, when the Sub-bass sound comes in his voice does not sound normal anymore.
- Ronny Jordan ( 1993), here the Bass line IS the song and it is not presented as the main part
- Tom Mish, here there should be a clearly pumping bass and that is lacking
- Whilk & Misky, here they have produced a bass and beat sound that is like an "implosion" so instead of hitting your should feel "sucked-into" the groove.
- Nao, there is no "body "
- Benji Hughes, here the drums really sound like they're made out of plastic.
- Ibeyi, this is a VERY physical song with the massive deep hit, but it's lacking.

As mentioning , I'm not trying to start a Flame war or badmouth the Phantoms which are GREAT speakers, but for me personally ( my kind of music) they are better suited towards a Home Theater set-up then music only.
I have the Phantoms set-up on book-shelf stands , or just next to them a very solid 3 meter ( 10ft) long oak table

*Anyway, in my youth I used to professionally work as a sound engineer both in Studios and at Live gigs...and ok you need to understand what button to press but more so you need to have  "good ears" and know what different instrument should sound like. Secondly you do if the sound is not what to expect you will never be able to find solutions on what is wrong. The hardest part is always to find out what sounds that are missing, sounds that are to loud is quite easy

Would love to hear your objective opinion

I can't say I understand any of this. But hey, different strokes for different people.

I've had some pretty good hifi in my time and I heard plenty of expensive hifi at the Bristol show and I'm still of the opinion that the Phantoms are the ones to beat on any level you care to measure - although you disagree which is fair, if that is wht your ears are telling you

Can I make a suggestion, please try this track, it is Chinese drumming 'Poem of Chinese Drum' - get the Phantoms positioned correctly and turn up to about 55. I would be gobsmacked if all those things that you felt lacking were not present.

In the meantime I will give your playlist a go and report back.

[Jamington2004]

"Can I make a suggestion, please try this track, it is Chinese drumming 'Poem of Chinese Drum' - get the Phantoms positioned correctly and turn up to about 55. I would be gobsmacked if all those things that you felt lacking were not present."

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Nothing lacking for me - perfectly integrated at all frequencies and all sound levels to my ears. Scared the bejeeesus out of me a few times as well - and I only had it on 50

Could have done with fat snare drum breakbeat laid over the top..... But that's another story