State of Phantom, December 2015 (new owner questions)

[kameraguy]

Hi All,

I am new here on the forums and am looking to purchase a pair of Phantom Silvers with Dialog and Remote.

I've tried to read as much about known issues and found the posts on these forums invaluable.

If I may, I would like to ask opinions of owners who've had their Phantoms for a good amount of time if the following issues i've read about are serious. As i've read about these issues as far back as January 2015 and it is end of year now, hopefully some or all of these issues have been addressed with either new hardware revisions or firmware updates:

- Are the reports of Dialog running "hot" a serious "problem", or normal operating temperature? I've read some posts indicating this is a serious issue, while others have mentioned a FW update seems to have reduced the operating temps. I just am not sure what is the official Devialet stance on this.

- Reports of hiss at low volumes seems to have been corrected or significant;y reduced with the last FW updates. Is this a problem everyone has to suggest FW is the issue, or if it is only some users having this issue, perhaps it's a manufacturing issue?

- Have Devialet introduced running changes to the Phantom to improve it's performance/reliability? How can I tell if the Phantoms I will purchase will be from an early MFG date or later...by serial#?

- I read that FW updates can significantly alter the sound quality. Is this something that can be reverted if you prefer the sound prior to an update?

- I keep reading how unstable Spark has been since introduction until now. Is Spark still unstable to the point of rendering the Phantoms a hassle to play music through? Are there ways to bypass Spark and simply stream music direct to the Phantoms such as connecting an AirPort express via toslink and using AirPlay?

- Are there any reliability issues to keep in mind?


- I read that the Phantoms constantly stay on as there is no "standby" mode. Is there any issue using an external power switch to shut them down when not in use?


And some questions on customer service please:

- With the 45-day trial, it seems there is no issue to give them a go in home. But I read from one user they had a nightmare actually returning them for a refund. Has anyone had experience with the return process?

- Any experiences with warranty repairs? Good/bad?

If there is anything you can add to help a new owner, I would greatly appreciate it.

Thank you.

[ragwo]

Hi All,

I am new here on the forums and am looking to purchase a pair of Phantom Silvers with Dialog and Remote.

I've tried to read as much about known issues and found the posts on these forums invaluable.

If I may, I would like to ask opinions of owners who've had their Phantoms for a good amount of time if the following issues i've read about are serious. As i've read about these issues as far back as January 2015 and it is end of year now, hopefully some or all of these issues have been addressed with either new hardware revisions or firmware updates:

- Are the reports of Dialog running "hot" a serious "problem", or normal operating temperature? I've read some posts indicating this is a serious issue, while others have mentioned a FW update seems to have reduced the operating temps. I just am not sure what is the official Devialet stance on this.
The Dialog runs hot but as long as you don't covet it up it will be OK. 

- Reports of hiss at low volumes seems to have been corrected or significant;y reduced with the last FW updates. Is this a problem everyone has to suggest FW is the issue, or if it is only some users having this issue, perhaps it's a manufacturing issue?
It seems like it's a combination of FW and manufacturing. Those with a hissing problem, including me, have gotten the problem reduced with FW. 

- Have Devialet introduced running changes to the Phantom to improve it's performance/reliability? How can I tell if the Phantoms I will purchase will be from an early MFG date or later...by serial#?
As far as I know the only change was in June when introducing Phantom with on board BT connectivity. I believe the first two digits after H in the serial number is the production week. 

- I read that FW updates can significantly alter the sound quality. Is this something that can be reverted if you prefer the sound prior to an update?
At the moment there's no way to revert a FW update after installation. 

- I keep reading how unstable Spark has been since introduction until now. Is Spark still unstable to the point of rendering the Phantoms a hassle to play music through? Are there ways to bypass Spark and simply stream music direct to the Phantoms such as connecting an AirPort express via toslink and using AirPlay?
Spark has been significantly improved during the last updates. Personally I don't think it's a hassle to use Spark on daily basis. Airplay via Airport express will work. You can also bypass Spark by using a Chromecast Audio connected via optical input. It supports 24/96 and costs only $30. 

- Are there any reliability issues to keep in mind?


- I read that the Phantoms constantly stay on as there is no "standby" mode. Is there any issue using an external power switch to shut them down when not in use?
As long as the external power switch doesn't include a power filter everything is fine. 

And some questions on customer service please:

- With the 45-day trial, it seems there is no issue to give them a go in home. But I read from one user they had a nightmare actually returning them for a refund. Has anyone had experience with the return process?
Haven't tried it, so I don't know. 

- Any experiences with warranty repairs? Good/bad?
At the moment there is no way to repair a Phantom. Devialet has no hw service department for Phantom. Quite baffling actually. The only way to repair a Phantom is to replace it. 
I've been granted a replacement for a pair of Silver Phantoms once and the process was fairly quick. 

If there is anything you can add to help a new owner, I would greatly appreciate it.

Thank you.

[sleach]

I have had mine since early 2015 : 2 silvers and a dialog. Got the remote when it came to Australia. I've had pretty flawless performance the whole time with phantoms and spark. And loved it. My only gripes are trivial relating to search features and so on in Spark. But even so Spark has been growing on me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[f1eng]

My silver Phantoms were in the first shipment to come from Devialet's own web store in March 2015, earlier units were purchased from a web store in Paris where they had a supply contract. I am not sure many came this way but there were definitely production delays. Mine came almost 3 months after I paid for them.
Mine are therefore very early production but work perfectly with the latest firmware.
I have not noticed any change to SQ which would lead me to go backwards on a firmware update. Some owners do/did not like the change to the volume control law which changed quite substantially with one FW update leaving a big difference between the number on the volume control to get the same loudness after the change. This seemed to freak some owners out.

My Dialog runs hot but has not failed though I unplug it when not in use.

Mine do not, and never have with any of the firmwares, hiss at low, or any, volume. I recently bought a third Phantom because of the addition of bluetooth. It does not hiss either. So for me, neither very early nor very recent hardware has had this problem.

I don't know what hardware updates have been included during production. If they are anything like cars there will have been some, maybe many, and the customers and dealers will not be told.

There was an early hardware change to the Dialog and mine was recalled and replaced with the new type. It runs just as hot as the first one though.

I had quite a few connection problems at home in the early days. I took them to the Scalford show in March and once they had internet access they worked fine with the earliest firmware and software. With help from Devialet's customer service it became clear that the principle means of communication between the Dialog and the Phantoms is via the power chord not wireless, though I was told that one bug in the early code was when the system checked the robustness of the wireless, power chord and ethernet connections there was a mistake which meant the system defaulted to the least robust connection rather than the best... That meant at home, where I had the Dialog plugged into a filtered socket it always chose the power chord which did not work! The firmware is fixed and my kit is plugged into non filtered mains outlets now. Since then I have no problems.

I mainly listen to classical music and none of the streaming software I have tried is much use at either tagging sensibly or searching usefully for classical works. Spark is neither better or worse for this IMO. Otherwise, for pop music and Qobuz streaming it seems fine.
I have a CD transport connected to one Phanton via an optical SPDIF lead and my TV tuner connected to the Dialog similarly. Both work fine.

It is a shame that there is no standby mode but I unplug everything when it is not in use anyway.

[BowlOfPetunias]

Hi All,

I am new here on the forums and am looking to purchase a pair of Phantom Silvers with Dialog and Remote.

I've tried to read as much about known issues and found the posts on these forums invaluable.

If I may, I would like to ask opinions of owners who've had their Phantoms for a good amount of time if the following issues i've read about are serious. As i've read about these issues as far back as January 2015 and it is end of year now, hopefully some or all of these issues have been addressed with either new hardware revisions or firmware updates:

- Are the reports of Dialog running "hot" a serious "problem", or normal operating temperature? I've read some posts indicating this is a serious issue, while others have mentioned a FW update seems to have reduced the operating temps. I just am not sure what is the official Devialet stance on this.

Yes it runs hot, as the heatsink is effectively on the top of the unit it verges on dangerous to touch.  If you have young kids as I do, you have to think about placement.

- Reports of hiss at low volumes seems to have been corrected or significant;y reduced with the last FW updates. Is this a problem everyone has to suggest FW is the issue, or if it is only some users having this issue, perhaps it's a manufacturing issue?

I've never had this issue, although others have on the same firmware versions so either my ears are duff (highly likely) or it's more random and possibly hardware/power related.

- Have Devialet introduced running changes to the Phantom to improve it's performance/reliability? How can I tell if the Phantoms I will purchase will be from an early MFG date or later...by serial#?

The only hardware change I'm aware of is the addition of Bluetooth, other than that no hardware changes have been made public to my knowledge.  Tbh I wouldn't buy second hand, with a product like that I'd want the backup and support of a retailer/hifi dealer that you can call on for support if needed.

- I read that FW updates can significantly alter the sound quality. Is this something that can be reverted if you prefer the sound prior to an update?

They can by playing with the DSP settings, you cannot downgrade the firmware or manually adjust DSP settings at this time (Or ever I'd imagine - Devialet will not want to be supporting users downgrading firmware that probably has bugs in it, hence the newer firmware revisions).

- I keep reading how unstable Spark has been since introduction until now. Is Spark still unstable to the point of rendering the Phantoms a hassle to play music through? Are there ways to bypass Spark and simply stream music direct to the Phantoms such as connecting an AirPort express via toslink and using AirPlay?

Personally, coming from Sonos, I think Spark is dreadful.  Your mileage may of course vary so I'm not saying Spark is bad, just that I find it bad.  I already had a Sonos Connect so I run that into one of the Optical inputs on a Phantoms as it was easier to reach than the Dialog.  You could do the same with a Chromecast audio for a lot less money than a Sonos connect, then you will just use Spark for volume control.  I tried spark again the other day, played an album from Deezer and it skipped tracks and stopped without prompting at one point.  

- Are there any reliability issues to keep in mind?

My Phantoms are starting to go yellow above the mid driver as are others on the forum, I only noticed when cleaning the house before xmas so am yet to speak to the dealer I bought them through, I'll be calling them tomorrow.  No other reliability issues I know of yet, as I said above I'd only want these brand new through a hifi dealer so you've got someone to fight your cause if there were to be an issue.  With an all-in-one like the Phantom, if it goes wrong, self repair will be out of the question.

- I read that the Phantoms constantly stay on as there is no "standby" mode. Is there any issue using an external power switch to shut them down when not in use?

Nope although the Phantoms and dialog take a while to start up and if I remember correctly you're meant to start the Dialog up first so it's ready for the Phantoms to connect to.


And some questions on customer service please:

- With the 45-day trial, it seems there is no issue to give them a go in home. But I read from one user they had a nightmare actually returning them for a refund. Has anyone had experience with the return process?

I think this was in the USA, I'm still in my 45 day trial and I don't foresee an issue just taking them back to the dealer if I change my mind.

- Any experiences with warranty repairs? Good/bad?

None sorry.

If there is anything you can add to help a new owner, I would greatly appreciate it.

I put some thought in this thread yesterday: http://devialetchat.com/showthread.php?tid=2350
Have a read, only personal opinion :-)

Thank you.

[rmb867]

Thanks to all for the questions and responses. This has been a great way to learn. 

I had the chance to hear the Phantoms a couple of weeks back and was completely blown away by the sound and ready to pull the trigger, but given the issues I'm reading here, I'm on the fence for now. 

Home theatre will be a significant part of my use and with the delay/lip sync problems I'm reading about, I'm inclined to wait for a bit. 

It sounds like more work is required on the software front and maybe an updated Dialog. 

Am I overly optimistic to expect any news out of CES in a couple of weeks?

[kameraguy]

Thank you all for the insightful replies to my thread. I am keeping all of this in mind when I see my local dealer tomorrow for a demo.

Interestingly, I stumbled upon a promotion on the Devialet site that mentions two Phantoms and Dialog nets you a free optical turntable:

http://en.devialet.com/phantom-turntable#best-en-us

I thought that would be brilliant and tried to place an order on the site. But it seems the site is broken. Not only does it not recognize the offer when I add them to my cart (my assumption that they may be out of them), I am not able to proceed to place an order for a Phantom Silver Duo configuration and provide payment. It's an endless loop back to the shopping cart. I have sent a message to Devialet inquiring about this.

Perhaps it'll be easier to purchase locally anyway sans the turntable (bummer) just in case I have any issues during ownership.

Some additional questions please:

- Does bluetooth work directly with a Phantom Duo/Dialog setup? Just confirming if there is a playback alternative in case I encounter any Spark related issues.

- Has anyone experience with the Remote? I am assuming it is always paired with the Phantoms, even if they get unplugged? Or does the remote have to be re-paired after they boot up? I see the process is easy, but would be nice to know if they remained paired.

- Does the Remote have an LCD display? I read Devialet "may" add additional functions for music transport. I'm guessing that would show as soft buttons in the middle? I have yet to find detailed real-world photos/videos of the Remote in use.

- Once the Phantoms/Duo are paired, do they need re-pairing if I move the system to a different location? Will they work if not connected to the internet? Reason for these questions is perhaps I may use the system for a party at a friend's house. Just wondering how easy/difficult that would be when setup somewhere aside from home. I read that they may depend on AC wiring on the same circuit for communication to each other...not sure if internet access is necessary for playback though...was hoping an airport express with it's own Wifi network would be sufficient to stream optical to them, or even bluetooth instead.

- Any word on the carry case for the Phantoms? Color/Pricing?

- Although the Branch stands look lovely, I'd like to use different stands. Can someone please confirm the circumference of the Phantom base?

- Phantoms can be used with standard IEC power cables if need be? I was thinking to use IEC power cords with built-in inline switches to make powering them off more convenient.



Thanks alot!

[kameraguy]

Am I overly optimistic to expect any news out of CES in a couple of weeks?

I too am wondering what to expect from Devialet on the Phantom series for CES 2016. I am guessing nothing with the assumption their original intent was to future-proof the Phantoms by not releasing new hardware, and focus on software-driven improvements.

But maybe they are expanding the lineup with different iterations of the Phantom (smaller/larger)?

If anyone has heard anything through the grapevine, please share

[Teliaved]

Kameraguy
The offer ended 2 days ago. It was a Christmas special.

[kameraguy]

Thanks Teliaved, bummer I just missed it. But I have to give kudos to Devialet support. I asked about it while placing my order this morning and they let me know they'd send me a free remote instead. A nice gesture!

And I am happy to say my Silver Duo system arrived tonight! Turned out a local SF bay-area company enjoy.com had the system in stock and hand delivered it to my office same day. They were just down the street from me. Amazing service!

Just finished setting it up and am now listening to Tidal. So far so good. Will need to spend some good time with them and make sure all is well.

By the way, I'm trying to play music via SlimDevices Squeezebox v3 into optical in of one of the Phantoms (both are setup as stereo). This doesn't work despite setting up the optical input of the Phantom. How are you all using optical in? Is it possible to connect to one of the two Phantoms and have them play the music in stereo? Or am I supposed to connect optically to the Dialog in this configuration? Sorry if this is basic...I read the owners manual and it doesn't cover physical source connectivity.

Thanks everyone for the help!