Stereo pair 103db dropouts

[frogster99]

Frankly, I don't think the Devialet speakers are. If Devialet can see huge delays between the speakers, there is probably a network issue. You should try to bypass the node to see if the combination is the culprit.

By the way, do you use wireless or wired backhaul?

It's a wireless backhaul.
I'll have to see what devialet say.

[frogster99]

Does the master not send the right hand side audio directly to the other phantom? Why would it send it back to the router as I'm sure it must separate the audio channels in the phantom.
especially when I'm sending it via Bluetooth why is the router even involved.

[scotthar]

FWIW- never had any great reliability using wireless anything in the phantom system new or old.   Ethernet between all devices and using an Optical input is the most stable even with a dialog in the mix.  IMO the only way to go. Bluetooth YMMV for short periods but really never found it to have great SQ for any length of time.  Not tried AirPlay so no thoughts other than if its over WIFI, forget it.  IMO the wireless connectivity (all of it) is a bit of oversell because networking is not easy - not that it wont or cant work but there are a lot of variables and different implementations that all need to work together reliably. Wireless is just adding a bit of extra complexity to an already complex system.

[struts]

FWIW- never had any great reliability using wireless anything in the phantom system new or old.   Ethernet between all devices and using an Optical input is the most stable even with a dialog in the mix.  IMO the only way to go. Bluetooth YMMV for short periods but really never found it to have great SQ for any length of time.  Not tried AirPlay so no thoughts other than if its over WIFI, forget it.  IMO the wireless connectivity (all of it) is a bit of oversell because networking is not easy - not that it wont or cant work but there are a lot of variables and different implementations that all need to work together reliably. Wireless is just adding a bit of extra complexity to an already complex system.

Wi-Fi can work well but it is far from a given.  I have had a really frustrating last couple of weeks when my system (wired Roon core with wirelessly connected Phantoms) started skipping to the next track after a minute-or-so and the message about Qobuz loading slowly would flash up.  Previous to this my system had been working without problem for a long time so I suspected the latest firmware update had screwed something up.  I spent hours and hours trying to isolate the problem and finally today I succeeded, learning a couple of useful lessons in the process.

The cause of the problem turned out to be my network.  I have two Wi-Fi access points (APs) as I have quite a long apartment, one is in the same room as the Phantoms and the other is at the other end of the apartment.  While I was tinkering with the network I noticed that while the left hand Phantom was connected to the nearest AP the right hand Phantom was connected to the farthest one, two rooms and two load-bearing walls away.  

So I created a new wireless network only for the Phantoms.  I restricted it to 5GHz only which significantly reduced congestion (I can "see" about 60 other Wi-Fi networks from my apartment, 55 of them are on 2.4GHz) and configured it to only use the AP nearest the Phantoms.  After reconfiguring the Phantoms to connect to this network the skipping stopped immediately and the system has now been playing all day without missing a beat.

So I agree wireless can be tricky.  Signal attenuation from walls etc. and interference, particularly on the 2.4GHz band which is shared with Bluetooth, DECT, ANT+, baby monitors etc., but most of all other Wi-Fi APs, can really spoil your day.  Lessons learned:
1.  The nearer the speakers are to the AP the better.  In the same room with line-of-sight is best.
2.  If you have multiple APs force Phantoms in a stereo pair to connect to the same (nearest) one.
3.  Force them to use the 5GHz band.

If you are having problems and for whatever reason can't do the above then I agree with you, wired is definitely the way to go!

[frogster99]

Even when connected via ethernet, master speaker only I still get dropouts on the other speaker, honestly it's just a joke at the moment.

[ragwo]

Even when connected via ethernet, master speaker only I still get dropouts on the other speaker, honestly it's just a joke at the moment.

Are you still connected to an AP via wireless backhaul? I still recommend that you try to wire both speakers to your main router.

[frogster99]

I will try, the only reason that I bought the phantoms was because they were wireless. I don't want cables everywhere and if i did i wouldn't buy phantoms.
i just cant understand that my Sonos system is in the same room. Sonos is 5.1 and i never get dropouts at all.

[struts]

I will try, the only reason that I bought the phantoms was because they were wireless. I don't want cables everywhere and if i did i wouldn't buy phantoms.
i just cant understand that my Sonos system is in the same room. Sonos is 5.1 and i never get dropouts at all.

Totally understand and really feel your pain.  I know from the periods when my own system has been playing up how maddeningly frustrating it is, especially with these supposedly premium and far from cheap products.

There's a fairly simple explanation but I'm afraid it's not going to help.  I worked with two of the founders of Sonos at a software company long before they founded Sonos.  They already had a couple of successful exits in the bag and chalked up another one when their company merged with the company I was working for.  They are not only serial entrepreneurs but high caliber software professionals, the genius of Sonos lies in the software.  Devialet was founded by an electronic engineer, a hardware genius who for a brief period churned out more innovations than the rest of the industry put together.  Unfortunately Devialet has never shown any software chops.  Au contraire, their short history is checkered with software snafus.

As I describe above Wi-Fi can be really tricky to get right, especially if your house has thick interior walls and/or you live in an apartment block with congested airspace.  Please try my Wi-Fi recommendations above and let me know how you get on, but if both of the above factors apply you may be better off testing if they work better on PLC.  You can force the Phantoms to use PLC in the app.  Unfortunately apartment buildings also tend to have very dirty mains power so it may not help but it's worth a try.  It's free, it's easy and it's fully reversible.

[frogster99]

I will try, the only reason that I bought the phantoms was because they were wireless. I don't want cables everywhere and if i did i wouldn't buy phantoms.
i just cant understand that my Sonos system is in the same room. Sonos is 5.1 and i never get dropouts at all.

Totally understand and really feel your pain.  I know from the periods when my own system has been playing up how maddeningly frustrating it is, especially with these supposedly premium and far from cheap products.

There's a fairly simple explanation but I'm afraid it's not going to help.  I worked with two of the founders of Sonos at a software company long before they founded Sonos.  They already had a couple of successful exits in the bag and chalked up another one when their company merged with the company I was working for.  They are not only serial entrepreneurs but high caliber software professionals, the genius of Sonos lies in the software.  Devialet was founded by an electronic engineer, a hardware genius who for a brief period churned out more innovations than the rest of the industry put together.  Unfortunately Devialet has never shown any software chops.  Au contraire, their short history is checkered with software snafus.

As I describe above Wi-Fi can be really tricky to get right, especially if your house has thick interior walls and/or you live in an apartment block with congested airspace.  Please try my Wi-Fi recommendations above and let me know how you get on, but if both of the above factors apply you may be better off testing if they work better on PLC.  You can force the Phantoms to use PLC in the app.  Unfortunately apartment buildings also tend to have very dirty mains power so it may not help but it's worth a try.  It's free, it's easy and it's fully reversible.

Thanks again, I will give it a try and let you know how I get on. The bit that puzzles me is if I restart the phantom that keeps dropping, it works againf for an hour or so. Could it be the speaker?

[struts]

Thanks again, I will give it a try and let you know how I get on. The bit that puzzles me is if I restart the phantom that keeps dropping, it works againf for an hour or so. Could it be the speaker?

It could be, but my gut feel is that something hokey is going on with your Wi-Fi. Two things that would be helpful to understand:
1. How many Wi-Fi networks can you see from the room where the Phantoms are? What channels are they on? (I use a program called InSSIDer but there are hundreds of cheap and free Wi-Fi analyzers)
2. Using the Orbi admin console check which device and channel the Phantom that drops is connected through (a) when it is playing and (b) when it drops. Are there any differences compared to the one that is working?

If the Phantoms are not using a 5GHz channel can you try forcing them to? Either reconfigure your main Wi-Fi network or use the Guest Wireless Network function to nail up a second network only for your Phantoms and limit that to 5 GHz only? (you will need to check the option that lets guests see each other and access the local network). Any difference?

If this doesn’t help PLC is the next option.

PS Please could you also let me know the first three characters of the serial numbers and also verify that both speakers are on the same firmware version.

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