Streaming clarification

[David A]

Sorry,
But for those that only use roon as a source (my case) what´s the best set up?
I don´t listen from any other format. Simple system, Tidal via roon to Dev straight to my ears, but i´d like to optimize the way i´m listenning too.
David, i saw the setup you mentioned from roon forum but, unless you tell me the opposite, looks unnecessary in my case.
Thanks.

What do you mean by "the best set up"?

You've obviously got both your Dev and your Roon source connected to the same network and the network connection is working.

When it comes to settings for Roon you've got 3 decisions to make. 

Since you're using Tidal the first of those decisions is whether you want Roon to do the first MQA unfold for you or not. The only way you can benefit from MQA with a Devialet is to let Roon do that first unfold because the Devialet has no MQA capabilities so in Roon's Device Setup menu for your Dev set "MQA capabilities to "No MQA  Support" if that says something else. That should be the default but if it doesn't show that then set it to that anyway, regardless of whether or not you want to use MQA. Then scroll down to the bottom of the Advanced settings and set "Enable MQA core decoder" to "Yes" if you want Rood to do the first MQA unfold or to "No" if you don't want to use MQA at all.. I leave all other settings in the Device Setup menu to the defaults.

The second decision is whether you want to have Roon do things like volume levelling (I don't) or upscaling or any other DSP processing. Once again I don't but as you will have seen in the posts above some people like to have Roon convert PCM to DSD. Others like to have Roon upscale everything, usually to 192/24. Once again I don't but if you want to have Roon do any of those things you set those options in Roon's DSP menu. Those are personal choices which can affect the sound and everyone has their own taste. Leaving DSP off means Roon will pass a bit perfect stream to the Dev at the original resolution of the file unless that resolution is higher than 192/24 which it won't be for music from Tidal or for most music you may have in your own library unless you've got some really high res downloads. Roon will downscale anything with a higher resolution than 192/24 to 192/24 because that's the highest resolution the Dev will accept from an input.

The third decision is how you want Roon to send music to the Dev and there are 2 parts to that decision.

The first part depends on how you have your Dev connected to your network. That's either by ethernet or wifi. Ethernet is best in my view but you may not be able to connect your Dev to your network by ethernet. The choices you will be able to make in Roon depend on how your Dev connects to the network.  When yo go to "Audio" in Roon's Settings menu you will see a list of all of the ways Roon is capable of sending music to your Dev so what you will probably see are a Roon Ready option, and under "Other network devices" options for using either Devialet AIR or AirPlay. Forget AirPlay. Either use Roon Ready or the Devialet AIR option. Both sound great but they do sound a little different to each other. I prefer and use Roon Ready but it occasionally "plays up" for me with a connection that drops out intermittently and I have to restart either Roon or my Dev. I don't have that problem with Devialet AIR. I put up with it with the Roon Ready option because it only happens once every few months and I think Roon Ready sounds slightly better than AIR but there are lots of people who think Devialet AIR sounds better than Roon Ready. Both sound great so it's your choice.

That's pretty much it if you're using wifi. If you're using ethernet you can play games with different ethernet cables and ethernet switches. Your choice of cables and switches can make an audible difference but if you're happy with the sound that you get after setting up Roon then there's no need to play with cables and switches unless you want to and you're chasing small improvements. It's up to you just how obsessive you want to become in chasing sound quality and I'd say I lean to the obsessive  :-)  You don't have to be obsessive to get good sound.

Basically once you've decided whether you're going to use Roon's Roon Ready or Devialet AIR output and whether to use MQA or not, Roon's default settings work fine in my view. Whether you connect to the Dev bay ethernet or wifi is up to you but I think ethernet is preferable. Any games you want to play with ethernet cables and switches is really icing on the cake and the cake is very good regardless of whether you choose to put icing on it or not.

My recommendation is to play with the Roon settings I mentioned above and see what you like. You'll get great results with your system as it is. You can make the system more complex by playing with music servers and ethernet cables and switches if you want to but changes there are going to cost you money but the starting point is always going to be those basic Roon settings. Get them set to your taste and they're not going to change whatever changes you make in your system.

[markush]

Great summary David.
For all users with a Ethernet connection I can highly recommend the MUON streaming system. It’s a completely passive solution but was amazing to see how much of an improvement there is with an obvious no-brainer bitperfect Ethernet connection (which is impacted by various types of noise etc making an audible difference)

[BoyScout]

Sorry,
But for those that only use roon as a source (my case) what´s the best set up?
I don´t listen from any other format. Simple system, Tidal via roon to Dev straight to my ears, but i´d like to optimize the way i´m listenning too.
David, i saw the setup you mentioned from roon forum but, unless you tell me the opposite, looks unnecessary in my case.
Thanks.

David,
You were once again a huge help.
I'll do what you advised me.
I have an ethernet connection, and so far I've only tested between Roon Ready and Devialet Air and I definitely prefer Devialet Air as it's a bit sharper and more detailed. But these are options taken in Devialet's source and i want to optimize the set up in Roon.
I have audioquest eth cables and an innuos mini needing to be replaced with a more suitable one, I'm also thinking about a better switch, etheRegen perhaps, but one thing at a time and for now I just want the right setup on the Roon.

There are three options:
Decoder only,
Renderer only,
Decoder + renderer.
Wich one?

Thanks again, David. I will report later.

[David A]

@BoyScout

The Devialet is a "Renderer only". It can't decode MQA, it can't render MQA, it can't do anything with MQA.

An MQA audio stream is initially a CD resolution 44.1/16 digital audio stream but some of the bits are used to tell an MQA capable device what to do with the audio info in the rest of the 16 bits. Any DAC can deliver analog audio from that stream but it will be less than CD quality because a CD quality signal uses 16 bits for audio info and my understanding is that MQA uses 3 of its 16 bit signal for MQA info leaving 13 bits for audio data a DAC can convert to analog audio. In effect MQA encoding results in lossy compression of the audio data if you don't have a device which can process MQA encoding.

There are 2 stages in processing an MQA stream, a decoder does the first stage and a renderer does the second stage. Some MQA capable devices can both decode and render, some can only render, and if you have 2 MQA capable devices you can use one to decode the signal and pass the decoded signal to the second device for renderering. A decoded stream gives a better result than an undeoded stream and a stream which is both decoded and rendered gives a better result than a stream which has only been decoded. Roon can decode an MQA stream but it cannot render it. The best result you can get with just Roon and your Devialet is to have Roon decode the MQA stream which is what it does when you set "Enable MQA core decoder" to "On". To get the extra benefit provided by rendering you would have to have Roon stream a decoded stream to a device which can render MQA and have that device pass the signal to your Devialet after it was rendered.


You mentioned that you were using an Innuos server. That gives you an option I didn't mention in my earlier reply.

I understand that Innocuous servers have 2 ethernet ports, one to connect the Innuos to your network and the other to connect the Innocuous to the device it streams to. In my earlier reply I assumed that both whatever device you were running Roon on and your Devialet were each connected directly to your network. That won't be the case if you have directly connected your Innocuous to the Devialet using a connection from the 2nd ethernet port on the Innocuous.

So you have 2 ethernet connection options:

1- Innuos and Devialet independently connected to your network via ethernet, and

2- Innocuous connected to your network via ethernet and Devialet connected to your Innuos via ethernet from the second ethernet port on the Innuos..

You didn't say which connection method you're using. I have no experience with Innuos servers but I think the 2nd method is likely to be slightly better. Whichever method you're using you may want to try the other and see which you prefer.

[BoyScout]

@BoyScout

Let me check wich kind of connection i´m using, but i´m pretty sure that´s the switch connected to network and both Innuos and Devialet to the switch.

I remember i had it first by a simple way, without the swich, but my Devialet dealer told me to try the swich i have, i did it and i prefer with it, don´t ask me why but it sounds better, to my ears.

Thanks David, for the support and sorry for the ignorance.

[Confused]

@BoyScout

The Devialet is a "Renderer only". It can't decode MQA, it can't render MQA, it can't do anything with MQA.

An MQA audio stream is  initially a CD resolution 44.1/16 digital audio stream but some of the bits are used to tell an MQA capable device what to do with the audio info in the rest of the 16 bits. Any DAC can deliver analog audio from that stream but it will be less than CD quality because a CD quality signal uses 16 bits for audio info and my understanding is that MQA uses 3 of its 16 bit signal  for MQA info leaving 13 bits for audio data a DAC can convert to analog audio. In effect MQA encoding results in lossy compression of the audio data if you don't have a device which can process MQA encoding.

There are 2 stages in processing an MQA stream, a decoder does the first stage and a renderer does the second stage. Some MQA capable devices can both decode and render, some can only render, and if you have 2 MQA capable devices you can use one to decode the signal and pass the decoded signal to the second device for renderering. A decoded stream gives a better result than an undeoded stream and a stream which is both decoded and rendered gives a better result than a stream which has only been decoded. Roon can decode an MQA stream but it cannot render it. The best result you can get with just Roon and your Devialet is to have Roon decode the MQA stream which is what it does when you set "Enable MQA core decoder" to "On". To get the extra benefit provided by rendering you would have to have Roon stream a decoded stream to a device which can render MQA and have that device pass the signal to your Devialet after it was rendered.

The MQA “second stage” (or unfold) is nothing more than upsampling and application of a pre determined filter.

Most DACs upsample and apply a filter anyway, MQA is not quite what it’s marketing material implies.

[David A]

@Confused,

I answered a question about settings required to enable a user to get best results from Roon and their Devialet with MQA steams. I very carefully avoided commenting about MQA itself. I'm happy to tell someone what settings to use for MQA but I kept my opinions about it to myself.

You're right, MQA is not quite what its marketing material implies, or should I say implied because I haven't seen any marketing material for MQA for quite some time. I haven't seen any for and against arguments of the sort that were frequent some years ago for some time now. It also hasn't become the new standard format for audio recordings that its developers hoped it would. The drop off in marketing material, the drop off in the arguments about whether it was a good thing or a bad thing, and the fact that it hasn't become the format of choice its developers hoped it would become all point to the fact that it does not seemed to have fulfilled any of the hopes of its developers and that says everything I think needs to be said.