Suggestions for Bi-amping using 440-Pro CI

[audio_engr]

Presently, I have the 440-Pro CI that I use for bi-wiring my B&W 802 D3. Should I wish to Bi-amp my 802 D3s, using my present 440-Pro CI as a pair of monos, what additional Devialet units do I need to buy ?

a) Another 440-Pro CI 

          OR

b) 2 units of 220-Pro CI 

          OR

c) 2 units of 220-Pro CI companions 


There will be only 1 Remote (which is the existing one with my 440-Pro CI). 

Also, I use my 440-Pro CI with the RCA-to-AES digital Link. How will the 2 more units link to the present 440-Pro CI ?

Suggestions from you will be much appreciated ... Thank you !  

[Devialetuser]

You could Bi-Amp without the need of buying extra units. Use one 220-Pro CI for bass/midrange and the other 220-Pro CI for high frequency.

I am curious to find out why you think you would need to bi-amp? Many people believe that it does not provide much improvement over bi-wiring. Having read your PS Audio P5 post I would think you have reached the end game. Instead I would suggest if you are still seeking for higher SQ to go with 1000 Pro I am sure it will be a significant upgrade over Bi-Amping. However that is pure conjecture on my part as I have now compared the 440 Pro with the 1000 Pro.

[audio_engr]

You could Bi-Amp without the need of buying extra units. Use one 220-Pro CI for bass/midrange and the other 220-Pro CI for high frequency.

I am curious to find out why you think you would need to bi-amp? Many people believe that it does not provide much improvement over bi-wiring. Having read your PS Audio P5 post I would think you have reached the end game. Instead I would suggest if you are still seeking for higher SQ to go with 1000 Pro I am sure it will be a significant upgrade over Bi-Amping. However that is pure conjecture on my part as I have now compared the 440 Pro with the 1000 Pro.

Thank you for your suggestions & recommendations. I am a Bowers & Wilkins 800-series user for the last 28 years & have owned the Matrix 802, Matrix 801 & the mammoth Matrix 800 from 1990 till to-date. In 2015-16, I moved to the 802 D3 soon after its launch upon hands-on witnessing huge potential from these modern designs thus discarded my earlier B&W speakers. Bowers & Wilkins speakers comes alive when you bi-wire them and should you wish to push 'em to their max, they need to be bi-amped. 

By using one 220-Pro CI per speaker, with one channel for LF and the other channel for Mid/HF (as suggested by you), I would get approx 220 watts @ 6 ohms. These 802 D3s that I have require more power ... minimum one 440 watts @ 6 ohms for Bass and another 440 watts @ 6 ohms for the Mids/Tweeter. (If I had the finances right now, I would go with 4 X 250-Pro CI). 

Moving from my 440-Pro CI to the 1000-Pro CI would give me more headroom and I have tried the 1000-Pro in my setup but what I am looking for is absolute top notch SQ at low volume levels that ONLY bi-amping can provide ... 

Hence I am keen to figure out how this can be accomplished and the way to wire it up. 

P.S. Earlier with my Matrix 800, I had the mighty Symphonic Line Kraft 250 monoblocks x 4 driven by a FM Acoustics FM-255 MK2 preamp. Stupendous SQ but I have since then moved to the Devialet's one-box solution.

[Hifi_swlon]

Haha, sounds like the one box solution became two and may ultimately become four!

[audio_engr]

Haha, sounds like the one box solution became two and may ultimately become four!

Thank God its not Ten with complexities like Pre-amp L-ch, Pre-amp R-ch, PSU-L, PSU-R and so on .. plus loads of cabling & the associated expense involved 

Indeed - it would be Four ... spoke to the Devialet Engineers in France who suggested 220-Pro CI companion units (a pair) daisy-chained using RCA-AES LINK cable.

[rchinn]

Before buying my 220, I had my basic B&W's (683 S2 is a long way from 802 D3) bi-amped and it was a big improvement bi-wired.

I do a lot of listening at low volumes. Exploring options for speaker upgrade, I am thinking of sticking with the 220 but going for a more sensitive speaker. Up from the 89DB, I have at the moment.

[audio_engr]

Before buying my 220, I had my basic B&W's (683 S2 is a long way from 802 D3) bi-amped and it was a big improvement bi-wired.

I do a lot of listening at low volumes. Exploring options for speaker upgrade, I am thinking of sticking with the 220 but going for a more sensitive speaker. Up from the 89DB, I have at the moment.

+1 ... 

[Drifter]

Can you still buy companions? I though that they were removed from the line-up when the CI board was introduced.

The way that I have it is that your options a) b) and c) are therefore all exactly the same. Only difference is that when you buy a 440PRO you get a bit of discount as opposed to buying two separate 220PRO's.

It would be very interesting to determine what the power difference will be should you add another 220PRO to each speaker. Currently each speaker gets 220W into 6ohm which is split between tweeter and bass. If you add another 220PRO, tweeter and bass will still only receive 220W into 6 ohm. The only difference is that each now gets its own 220W rather than sharing the single amp's power.

In reality adding another set of 220PRO's may only add another 10% or so of actual power?

[audio_engr]

Can you still buy companions? I though that they were removed from the line-up when the CI board was introduced.

The way that I have it is that your options a) b) and c) are therefore all exactly the same. Only difference is that when you buy a 440PRO you get a bit of discount as opposed to buying two separate 220PRO's.

It would be very interesting to determine what the power difference will be should you add another 220PRO to each speaker. Currently each speaker gets 220W into 6ohm which is split between tweeter and bass. If you add another 220PRO, tweeter and bass will still only receive 220W into 6 ohm. The only difference is that each now gets its own 220W rather than sharing the single amp's power.

In reality adding another set of 220PRO's may only add another 10% or so of actual power?

I was told by Devialet engineers (Technical Team for US from France) that I can get hold of 220-Pro CI companions by ordering it thru a dealer who'll then place a request to the Devialet - France factory to deliver the same. Since I am in Washington DC, the easiest way for me would be to place an order with the Devialet Showroom in New York City as they're a Devialet's own establishment in the US but the USA vs. EU price differential is crazy   ...
That forces me to try and find what I want in the EU region (new or used) and get them over to the US. 

Using a 220-Pro CI vs. 220-Pro CI COMPANION is € 1.500 differential I was told.

You wrote : "Currently each speaker gets 220W into 6ohm which is split between tweeter and bass"  
This is not true. The 802 D3's crossover is split as:
Low Frequency (doing Bass) : 2 x 200 mm Woofers
High Frequency (doing Mid & Treble) : 1 x 150 mm Midrange + 1 x 25 mm Tweeter

Since I am bi-wiring the LF & HF using 440-Pro CI, each speaker, i.e. [LF + HF] presently gets 440 watts @ 6 ohms.
When I bi-amp, the LF will get 440 watts & 6 ohms & the HF will also get 440 watts @ 6 ohms. 
Theoretically, it's double the power from bi-wiring but in practical terms, its not .. however each crossover section gets an independent power amp drive with adequate current for it to fully function uncompromised.

[Drifter]

Can you still buy companions? I though that they were removed from the line-up when the CI board was introduced.

The way that I have it is that your options a) b) and c) are therefore all exactly the same. Only difference is that when you buy a 440PRO you get a bit of discount as opposed to buying two separate 220PRO's.

It would be very interesting to determine what the power difference will be should you add another 220PRO to each speaker. Currently each speaker gets 220W into 6ohm which is split between tweeter and bass. If you add another 220PRO, tweeter and bass will still only receive 220W into 6 ohm. The only difference is that each now gets its own 220W rather than sharing the single amp's power.

In reality adding another set of 220PRO's may only add another 10% or so of actual power?

I was told by Devialet engineers (Technical Team for US from France) that I can get hold of 220-Pro CI companions by ordering it thru a dealer who'll then place a request to the Devialet - France factory to deliver the same. Since I am in Washington DC, the easiest way for me would be to place an order with the Devialet Showroom in New York City as they're a Devialet's own establishment in the US but the USA vs. EU price differential is crazy   ...
That forces me to try and find what I want in the EU region (new or used) and get them over to the US. 

Using a 220-Pro CI vs. 220-Pro CI COMPANION is € 1.500 differential I was told.

You wrote : "Currently each speaker gets 220W into 6ohm which is split between tweeter and bass"  
This is not true. The 802 D3's crossover is split as:
Low Frequency (doing Bass) : 2 x 200 mm Woofers
High Frequency (doing Mid & Treble) : 1 x 150 mm Midrange + 1 x 25 mm Tweeter

Since I am bi-wiring the LF & HF using 440-Pro CI, each speaker, i.e. [LF + HF] presently gets 440 watts @ 6 ohms.
When I bi-amp, the LF will get 440 watts & 6 ohms & the HF will also get 440 watts @ 6 ohms. 
Theoretically, it's double the power from bi-wiring but in practical terms, its not .. however each crossover section gets an independent power amp drive with adequate current for it to fully function uncompromised.

Apologies yes, each speaker gets 440W currently (not 220W).

The only difference going to a bi-amp setup is that the current 440W shared between low and high frequencies will be replaced by its own (non-shared) 440W supply. 
This is quite a divisive area in the audio world with as many proponents as opponents. 

The active crossover option from Devialet will allow active bi-amping. That should also be a consideration.