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Taiko
#1
Hi all,
Anyone had a listen to the Taiko Extreme streamer. Going to Hifi Lounge next week to have a listen, at £25000 it ought to be good. 
Cheers,
Bill.
Devialet 1000pro C1. Aurender N10 Wilson Benesch A.C.T. ONE Evolution P1 Naim headline Naim highcap Sennheiser HD 800 Naim Super Lumina speaker cable. Shunyata Delta EF mains cables. 2 PSI AVAA C20 active acoustic absorbers.
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#2
(03-Sep-2020, 16:43)wwm Wrote: Hi all,
Anyone had a listen to the Taiko Extreme streamer. Going to Hifi Lounge next week to have a listen, at £25000 it ought to be good. 
Cheers,
Bill.

No. Clearly you think price equates to sound. You have a lot to learn IMHO.
Qobuz, roon RAAT, Audiostore Prestige XL Optical, Synology NAS. Devialet Expert 250 Pro C/I. World Audio Design (DIY) KLS3 MkIII speakers, upgraded crossover and SEAS T25CF002 Millennium tweeters. Ethernet. Blue Jeans (Belden 5000) 10 gauge 5T00UP speaker cable.
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#3
It certainly looks the part. Nice bit of timber around the transformer. Nice lay-out and it weighs 45kg!
                                                    Lifetime Roon, Mac mini, int. SSD, ext. HDD, tv as monitor, key board and track pad on bean bag as remote,Devialet 200, Od'A #097, Blue jeans speaker cable,                                     
                                                                                                                                                                            Dynaudio C1 MkII.
                                                                                                                                                                              Jim Smith's GBS.
                                                                                                                                                                        Northern NSW Australia.
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#4
(03-Sep-2020, 21:09)Greg Wrote:
(03-Sep-2020, 16:43)wwm Wrote: Hi all,
Anyone had a listen to the Taiko Extreme streamer. Going to Hifi Lounge next week to have a listen, at £25000 it ought to be good. 
Cheers,
Bill.

No. Clearly you think price equates to sound. You have a lot to learn IMHO.

Hi Greg, perhaps an explanation mark at the end of the last sentence may have prevented your comment.
Devialet 1000pro C1. Aurender N10 Wilson Benesch A.C.T. ONE Evolution P1 Naim headline Naim highcap Sennheiser HD 800 Naim Super Lumina speaker cable. Shunyata Delta EF mains cables. 2 PSI AVAA C20 active acoustic absorbers.
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#5
Everything about the Extreme here with very active involvement from Taiko’s founder and staff:

https://whatsbestforum.com/threads/taiko...ème.27433/

Yes, it’s for the lucky few because of its price but supposedly very good with excellent support.
PS Audio P3, Shunyata ΞTRON Alpha Digital and HC/Furutech power cables, Paul Hynes SR7EHD-MR4, DIY Roon Server & Roon Endpoint running AudioLinux Headless, Phasure Lush^2 USB cable, Audioquest Diamond RJ/E ethernet, Uptone Audio etherREGEN, Mutec MC-3+ USB, Shunyata ΞTRON Anaconda Digital XLR AES/EBU, Devialet Expert 250 Pro CI, Nordost Tyr Reference LS cables, Von Schweikert VR-5 SE Anniversary Edition, Anti-Mode Dual Core 2.0, JL Audio Fathom F112. More detail here.

The Netherlands
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#6
I would actually have considered it had it weighted less than 25 kg. My Mac Pro 2019 with 2 powerful GPUs weights 18kg and I cannot image why a server would need to be 2.5x times heavier. I cannot help but feel that the specs were designed to justify the price.

There was an extremely long, detailed, passionate and extremely positive review of the Taiko at computer audiophile a few months ago.

But fundamentally I think it’s way way overkill in pretty much every way and probably short on super accurate clock vs what the latest Jcat XE card can do. I am also not sure about win10 although the engineer who designed the Taiko claims he tried a dedicated Linux and could never make it sound as good. He is pretty isolated in this opinion.

The plan for my next source is to go in the exact opposite direction with a less is more approach.

Cheers,
Bernard
Room: Gik Acoustics | Vibration: Townshend pods | Power: Shunyata Omega XC + Everest + Sigma NR v2 + Sigma ground cables | Source: Mojo Audio DejaVu EVO linux server running Roon core (Raat) | Ethernet: Sonore Optical module + Melco S10P with dedicated LPS + Shunyata Omega Ethernet x 2| Synchronous: Mutec MC-3 + USB (Paul Hynes SR7T LPS) + Cybershaft OP21A (Shunyata Omega USB, AES/EBU, clock cables) | Dac/Pre/Amplification: Devialet D1000 Pro CI (Chord Sarum T RCA-RCA link) | Speakers: Chord Sarum T cables + Wilson Benesch Act One Evolution P1
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#7
It’s as heavy as it is because it houses a fully linear power supply which has to be able to power two 10 core Xeon CPU’s and the entire machine is passively cooled so lots of heat sinks required. Smile

If you read the (admittedley very long) thread I linked to in my previous post all design choices you also mention (win10, why there’s no ‘super clock’ fitted, whether the specs are really overkill or selected because of SQ end results etc.) are discussed there. I follow the thread since I’m very interested in computer audio and Emile Bok (founder and designer) is quite open why it’s build as it is. But of course the real design secrets (e.g. specs of the custom RAM modules) are kept secret. Nonetheless I’m quite impressed from what I read. If I could easily afford it I’d probably would have listened to it already and perhaps bought it.

Several people who I follow on the forums and that have extensive experience with much of the top stuff available on the market and also much of the DIY stuff have bought it which I consider high praise.

Taiko is a Dutch company so perhaps I should try to make a visit to their ‘HQ’ one day to hear what all the buzz is about. Smile

PS; they’re currently in the prototyping phase of their own USB output card and ethernet switch. They want full control on the end result and optimal configuration to go with their Extreme server. They’re also developing their own music server software as Roon has let them down in the past several times when Roon issued updates which caused SQ deteriorations and caused complaints from their buyers.
PS Audio P3, Shunyata ΞTRON Alpha Digital and HC/Furutech power cables, Paul Hynes SR7EHD-MR4, DIY Roon Server & Roon Endpoint running AudioLinux Headless, Phasure Lush^2 USB cable, Audioquest Diamond RJ/E ethernet, Uptone Audio etherREGEN, Mutec MC-3+ USB, Shunyata ΞTRON Anaconda Digital XLR AES/EBU, Devialet Expert 250 Pro CI, Nordost Tyr Reference LS cables, Von Schweikert VR-5 SE Anniversary Edition, Anti-Mode Dual Core 2.0, JL Audio Fathom F112. More detail here.

The Netherlands
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#8
(04-Sep-2020, 16:09)Antoine Wrote: It’s as heavy as it is because it houses a fully linear power supply which has to be able to power two 10 core Xeon CPU’s and the entire machine is passively cooled so lots of heat sinks required. Smile

If you read the (admittedley very long) thread I linked to in my previous post all design choices you also mention (win10, why there’s no ‘super clock’ fitted, whether the specs are really overkill or selected because of SQ end results etc.) are discussed there. I follow the thread since I’m very interested in computer audio and Emile Bok (founder and designer) is quite open why it’s build as it is. But of course the real design secrets (e.g. specs of the custom RAM modules) are kept secret. Nonetheless I’m quite impressed from what I read. If I could easily afford it I’d probably would have listened to it already and perhaps bought it.

Several people who I follow on the forums and that have extensive experience with much of the top stuff available on the market and also much of the DIY stuff have bought it which I consider high praise.

Taiko is a Dutch company so perhaps I should try to make a visit to their ‘HQ’ one day to hear what all the buzz is about. Smile

PS; they’re currently in the prototyping phase of their own USB output card and ethernet switch. They want full control on the end result and optimal configuration to go with their Extreme server. They’re also developing their own music server software as Roon has let them down in the past several times when Roon issued updates which caused SQ deteriorations and caused complaints from their buyers.

Hi Antoine,
Read a couple of reviews that have been most positive but no mention of usb prototyping or moving away from Roon. I will ask Paul at Hifi Lounge when I see him next week, he may know something. I have to say I really like Aurender’s conductor.
Cheers.
Bill.
Devialet 1000pro C1. Aurender N10 Wilson Benesch A.C.T. ONE Evolution P1 Naim headline Naim highcap Sennheiser HD 800 Naim Super Lumina speaker cable. Shunyata Delta EF mains cables. 2 PSI AVAA C20 active acoustic absorbers.
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#9
Trying to recreate an alternative to Roon is IMHO a very bad idea.

There is no reason at all to think that a small company specialized in hardware will be able to get remotely close to the excellence of Roon in terms of capabilities, UI, software quality, breath and depth of compatible hardware.... nor sound quality, nor the possibility of software induced degradation of sound quality.

Many very talented software developers, such as the person in charge of Audirvana that I personally know, have trying incredibly hard for years without success IMHO. Being in the software industry for 20 years I know first hand that software quality for complex stuff is pretty much only the result of having at least tens of thousands of active users.

Ambition is good but this is futile at best.

As far as the weight resulting from the need to have 20 xeon cores, the real question to me is why when 10 times less computing power is already way overkill. Sorry but I just don’t buy that, even if it did make a difference in sound quality, the difference between 10 and 20 cores is significant enough to be assessed consistently by subjective humans.

Anyway, great for them if some folks are happy with it. I am all too famiiar with the appeal of owning a magic bullet to be surprised that some folks did get convinced. The weight alone, that I find the main issue, is a very strong argument for many folks who still feel deep inside that heavier must be better. Another being that spending only 10,000 euro on a source when other components in your system cost 30,000~80,000 or more feels unbalanced for some (boy must they feel worried about the EtheRegen Wink). But I disgress and I am fully guilty of having fallen too many times for such reasonnings.

I’ll stop here and let owners comment about their experience, sorry.

Cheers,
Bernard
Room: Gik Acoustics | Vibration: Townshend pods | Power: Shunyata Omega XC + Everest + Sigma NR v2 + Sigma ground cables | Source: Mojo Audio DejaVu EVO linux server running Roon core (Raat) | Ethernet: Sonore Optical module + Melco S10P with dedicated LPS + Shunyata Omega Ethernet x 2| Synchronous: Mutec MC-3 + USB (Paul Hynes SR7T LPS) + Cybershaft OP21A (Shunyata Omega USB, AES/EBU, clock cables) | Dac/Pre/Amplification: Devialet D1000 Pro CI (Chord Sarum T RCA-RCA link) | Speakers: Chord Sarum T cables + Wilson Benesch Act One Evolution P1
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#10
@wwm - Is the plan for you to listen to the Extreme with a Devialet amplifier, or will Hifi Lounge be demonstrating it with something else?

I always thought that the Expert sounded best when fed via AES/EBU.  Following some past experiments with the Pro I think the Pro is better than the Expert fed via USB, but notwithstanding this, AES/EBU remains the optimum way to feed a Pro, to my ears at least.  Bill - I note that you use an Aurender N10.  A fine product in my view, when I tried one it was at the time just about the best thing I had heard feeding a Devialet (together with the W20).  Also, I thought the Devialet sounded best when fed with the Aurender's AES/EBU output over the alternative of USB.  Is that your own preference and how you use your N10?  What I am thinking here is that I note that the Extreme has the option of AES/EBU output.  Looking at their website, it looks like AES/EBU output is in fact a 2000 Euro option, making things even more expensive, but if I was lucky enough to hear one with a Devialet then I think I would want to hear the AES/EBU option.  Consider, if the Devialet does actually perform better by AES/EBU (to my ears or another's ears), then maybe no USB product at any price could outperform a reasonably decent AES/EBU source with a Devialet?  Just a thought. 

The Extreme is certainly an interesting product, and by that I mean it is interesting in absolute terms.  Can a £25000 product really offer a sound quality improvement that justifies such a high price tag?  It is actually interesting because of it's build quality and the very high price tag, and to see if that can genuinely translate into something tangible and related to the actual enjoyment of the music.  (FWIW, that is more or less how I interpreted your comment in the OP, I did not read it as a "clear" statement that you think price equates to sound, for the simple reason that you did not write something that actually stated or implied this) 

Anyway, I hope you have some fun and have an enjoyable visit to Hifi lounge.  I look forward to reading about how you get on.

@bernardl - I use Roon sometimes, and no doubt that they do a good job in many areas.  That said, there has been a lot of stuff posted on other forums recently regarding updates to Roon that have negatively influenced sound quality.  Furthermore, there have been some discussions on the Roon forum covering this, which have basically been shut down with much talk of expectation bias, insults, and stating that if you have bit perfect playback then any perceived variance in sound quality is imagined.  The impression this gives is that Roon is library management tool, but the developers are not that interested in optimising for sound quality.  Indeed, many believe and insist that once you achieve bit perfect playback, that is it, nothing could be better.  Of course, some are also some that believe that music software can influence sound quality, in terms of how processors are used, latency, buffering and many other aspects.  I do not wish to get into the debate as to who is right or wrong here, these debates are typically inconclusive and a waste of time.  But I think it is fair to say that when you look at playback software and who is or is not trying very hard to optimise purely for sound quality, it is not Roon who is at the cutting edge with respect to sound quality.  That said, I have read some reports that the latest update of Roon (build 610) addresses some of the concerns of the SQ software purists and does indeed sound a little better, so who knows.  I guess that if the developers have tweaked Roon to improve sound quality, they may have needed to keep quiet about it to avoid brutal attack from their own forum members!  I do not have a strong view myself on this topic, but it is fair to say that for some, the worst aspect of Roon is that it is not the best software for sound quality, despite Roon's excellence in many areas.
1000 Pro - KEF Blade - iFi Zen Stream - Mutec REF10 - MC3+USB - Pro-Ject Signature 12
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