The General's Audio Set-Up

[IanG-UK]

Hi @IanG-UK
Lovely setup! in the top picture, the central GIK panels appear to be in three separate sections. The left hand panel is inverted compared to the other two. Is this intentional and if so, what difference does it make?

Hi

Thank you! I understand what you mean but all panels are the right way up - you can just see on the central panels that the GIK stickers are all lower right.

The panels do have different random designs. I had not appreciated that when ordering and indeed until I started fixing them to the walls. So although neatness would make me prefer all the designs to be the same, in reality one does not notice - and they are rather tricky to get vertically and horizontally aligned using rawlplug screw holes that the thought of trying to redo them was just too much! Value wise they are not at the expensive end at £99 per panel. But not cheap. Best wishes - Ian

[David A]

Hi @IanG-UK
Lovely setup! in the top picture, the central GIK panels appear to be in three separate sections. The left hand panel is inverted compared to the other two. Is this intentional and if so, what difference does it make?

Hi

Thank you! I understand what you mean but all panels are the right way up - you can just see on the central panels that the GIK stickers are all lower right.

The panels do have different random designs. I had not appreciated that when ordering and indeed until I started fixing them to the walls. So although neatness would make me prefer all the designs to be the same, in reality one does not notice - and they are rather tricky to get vertically and horizontally aligned using rawlplug screw holes that the thought of trying to redo them was just too much! Value wise they are not at the expensive end at £99 per panel. But not cheap. Best wishes - Ian

Ian,

As Axel says, nice system.

I noticed the same thing about the central panels as Axel but I did not notice the GIK labels in the lower right corners of each panel. I've looked long and hard again and I think that Axel is right. I think someone at the GIK factory put the label on the left hand panel on the wrong corner.

Yes, the pattern on each panel is random but it's the same random pattern. The fact that it is identical is easy to see on the centre and right panel but tricker to see on the left panel because you've got to mentally rotate it 180 degrees which isn't easy to do with a random pattern. Try looking at the top row of the left panel holes and the bottom line of the centre and right panels, then do the same with the bottom row on the left panel and the top row on the other 2 panels. It's easier to see if you compare the panels one row of holes at a time.

The holes are cut out on a computerised cutting machine which has been programmed to cut a specific pattern. GIK may offer several different patterns but every panel of the same pattern will be identical.

The pattern is intended to generate some diffusion and usually with identical diffusors placed side by side you should have them all oriented identically to generate uniform diffusion over the combined panel area. I don't know if having one panel upside down relative to the others will make a noticeable difference but it might, especially if you were sitting close to the panels. You seem to have a fair distance between you and them, however, and that will allow the diffusion to develop more fully (diffusors are less effective close to the panels because diffusion requires the reflection to spread out so diffusion improves with distance from the diffusor) so it may well not be noticeable at the listening position. If you ever take them down (eg if you're moving house) and putting them up somewhere else, I'd look at rotating the orientation of the left had panel by 180 degrees.

David

[IanG-UK]

Hi @IanG-UK
Lovely setup! in the top picture, the central GIK panels appear to be in three separate sections. The left hand panel is inverted compared to the other two. Is this intentional and if so, what difference does it make?

Hi

Thank you! I understand what you mean but all panels are the right way up - you can just see on the central panels that the GIK stickers are all lower right.

The panels do have different random designs. I had not appreciated that when ordering and indeed until I started fixing them to the walls. So although neatness would make me prefer all the designs to be the same, in reality one does not notice - and they are rather tricky to get vertically and horizontally aligned using rawlplug screw holes that the thought of trying to redo them was just too much! Value wise they are not at the expensive end at £99 per panel. But not cheap. Best wishes - Ian

Ian,

As Axel says, nice system.

I noticed the same thing about the central panels as Axel but I did not notice the GIK labels in the lower right corners of each panel. I've looked long and hard again and I think that Axel is right. I think someone at the GIK factory put the label on the left hand panel on the wrong corner.

Yes, the pattern on each panel is random but it's the same random pattern. The fact that it is identical is easy to see on the centre and right panel but tricker to see on the left panel because you've got to mentally rotate it 180 degrees which isn't easy to do with a random pattern. Try looking at the top row of the left panel holes and the bottom line of the centre and right panels, then do the same with the bottom row on the left panel and the top row on the other 2 panels. It's easier to see if you compare the panels one row of holes at a time.

The holes are cut out on a computerised cutting machine which has been programmed to cut a specific pattern. GIK may offer several different patterns but every panel of the same pattern will be identical.

The pattern is intended to generate some diffusion and usually with identical diffusors placed side by side you should have them all oriented identically to generate uniform diffusion over the combined panel area. I don't know if having one panel upside down relative to the others will make a noticeable difference but it might, especially if you were sitting close to the panels. You seem to have a fair distance between you and them, however, and that will allow the diffusion to develop more fully (diffusors are less effective close to the panels because diffusion requires the reflection to spread out so diffusion improves with distance from the diffusor) so it may well not be noticeable at the listening position. If you ever take them down (eg if you're moving house) and putting them up somewhere else, I'd look at rotating the orientation of the left had panel by 180 degrees.

David

Thank you David

I'll see if that is feasible as it will involve removing one brand sticker (in my view) which may be untidy.

I have checked the side panels (six of them) and three are the same, two are the same but inverted (sticker on "wrong") but one is definitely different - the pattern on this is a left/right mirror image of the other five. If I get paranoid about it I will have to buy another one and remount three depending on sticker removal. Of course, one can then debate whether the left and right panels should be the same or should be mirror image variants - left and right. I think this calls for double blind listening tests so I sit there with my eyes closed for an hour whilst someone changes the mounting. Come to think of it I'd need my eyes closed throughout!

Regards,

Ian

[Jean-Marie]

Hi @IanG-UK
Lovely setup! in the top picture, the central GIK panels appear to be in three separate sections. The left hand panel is inverted compared to the other two. Is this intentional and if so, what difference does it make?

Hi

Thank you! I understand what you mean but all panels are the right way up - you can just see on the central panels that the GIK stickers are all lower right.

The panels do have different random designs. I had not appreciated that when ordering and indeed until I started fixing them to the walls. So although neatness would make me prefer all the designs to be the same, in reality one does not notice - and they are rather tricky to get vertically and horizontally aligned using rawlplug screw holes that the thought of trying to redo them was just too much! Value wise they are not at the expensive end at £99 per panel. But not cheap. Best wishes - Ian

Ian,

As Axel says, nice system.

I noticed the same thing about the central panels as Axel but I did not notice the GIK labels in the lower right corners of each panel. I've looked long and hard again and I think that Axel is right. I think someone at the GIK factory put the label on the left hand panel on the wrong corner.

Yes, the pattern on each panel is random but it's the same random pattern. The fact that it is identical is easy to see on the centre and right panel but tricker to see on the left panel because you've got to mentally rotate it 180 degrees which isn't easy to do with a random pattern. Try looking at the top row of the left panel holes and the bottom line of the centre and right panels, then do the same with the bottom row on the left panel and the top row on the other 2 panels. It's easier to see if you compare the panels one row of holes at a time.

The holes are cut out on a computerised cutting machine which has been programmed to cut a specific pattern. GIK may offer several different patterns but every panel of the same pattern will be identical.

The pattern is intended to generate some diffusion and usually with identical diffusors placed side by side you should have them all oriented identically to generate uniform diffusion over the combined panel area. I don't know if having one panel upside down relative to the others will make a noticeable difference but it might, especially if you were sitting close to the panels. You seem to have a fair distance between you and them, however, and that will allow the diffusion to develop more fully (diffusors are less effective close to the panels because diffusion requires the reflection to spread out so diffusion improves with distance from the diffusor) so it may well not be noticeable at the listening position. If you ever take them down (eg if you're moving house) and putting them up somewhere else, I'd look at rotating the orientation of the left had panel by 180 degrees.

David

Thank you David

I'll see if that is feasible as it will involve removing one brand sticker (in my view) which may be untidy.

I have checked the side panels (six of them) and three are the same, two are the same but inverted (sticker on "wrong") but one is definitely different - the pattern on this is a left/right mirror image of the other five. If I get paranoid about it I will have to buy another one and remount three depending on sticker removal. Of course, one can then debate whether the left and right panels should be the same or should be mirror image variants - left and right. I think this calls for double blind listening tests so I sit there with my eyes closed for an hour whilst someone changes the mounting. Come to think of it I'd need my eyes closed throughout!

Regards,

Ian

I highly doubt that the orientation of the panels have any bearing on their acoustical effects. I would rather imagine that this is the ratio of holes vs non hole considering a surface of the order of magnitude of the the wavelength that they are dealing with. 

So if I was to be obsessed by symmetry, rather than trying to change the sticker which could leave some marks, I would put the dissimilar panel in the middle and recreate some symmetry that way with a lower risk. 

My two cents, pennies or whatever 

Jean-Marie

[David A]

@IanG-UK

As I said, I don't think you're going to notice it unless you want to start sitting very close to the panels.

I think it was RPG, a company making diffusors for big spaces, who commented some years ago about the need for distance between a listener and a diffusor. They recommended around 10' or 3 metres or so in order to allow the diffusion to become fully effective. I suspect that once that happens you wouldn't notice any difference and if you're sitting a bit closer than that to your panels you probably won't notice it anyway because they probably added a bit on to their base figure for safety and any differences are going to be stronger much closer to the panel where diffusion hasn't had a chance to develop.

Do the panels on the left and right sides need to be oriented as a mirror image to each other? I don't think so. The panel that is a left/right mirror image of the other 5 will actually be an identical panel which was made with what is the front side of your other panels attached to the absorbing layer behind it. Your room looks a little on the narrow side and if you want to allow 10' between side diffusors and a listening position you need a room at least 20' wide but even so I doubt you're going to notice much as a result of differences in orientation. Your side panels are largely in front of your listening position and that increases your distance from them somewhat anyway.

Since you're obviously happy with the sound you're getting, my guess is that any differences caused by differences in orientation of panels in your setup isn't large enough to be noticeable. I wouldn't worry about removing any panels from the wall and re-orienting them unless I was moving the system to another room.

I do think GIK seem to have a couple of quality control issues. Their label attacher isn't picking the same corner every time and the guy who attaches the diffusion panel to the backing behind it apparently doesn't make sure that he has the same face of the panel on the outside every time. Most customers would never notice these sorts of differences and the likelihood of the differences being audible is going to be quite low but I do think they should try to avoid them. If you have 9 panels in total and 4 are different to the other 5, that doesn't show good consistency in the assembly process.

David

[IanG-UK]

@IanG-UK

As I said, I don't think you're going to notice it unless you want to start sitting very close to the panels.

I think it was RPG, a company making diffusors for big spaces, who commented some years ago about the need for distance between a listener and a diffusor. They recommended around 10' or 3 metres or so in order to allow the diffusion to become fully effective. I suspect that once that happens you wouldn't notice any difference and if you're sitting a bit closer than that to your panels you probably won't notice it anyway because they probably added a bit on to their base figure for safety and any differences are going to be stronger much closer to the panel where diffusion hasn't had a chance to develop.

Do the panels on the left and right sides need to be oriented as a mirror image to each other? I don't think so. The panel that is a left/right mirror image of the other 5 will actually be an identical panel which was made with what is the front side of your other panels attached to the absorbing layer behind it. Your room looks a little on the narrow side and if you want to allow 10' between side diffusors and a listening position you need a room at least 20' wide but even so I doubt you're going to notice much as a result of differences in orientation. Your side panels are largely in front of your listening position and that increases your distance from them somewhat anyway.

Since you're obviously happy with the sound you're getting, my guess is that any differences caused by differences in orientation of panels in your setup isn't large enough to be noticeable. I wouldn't worry about removing any panels from the wall and re-orienting them unless I was moving the system to another room.

I do think GIK seem to have a couple of quality control issues. Their label attacher isn't picking the same corner every time and the guy who attaches the diffusion panel to the backing behind it apparently doesn't make sure that he has the same face of the panel on the outside every time. Most customers would never notice these sorts of differences and the likelihood of the differences being audible is going to be quite low but I do think they should try to avoid them. If you have 9 panels in total and 4 are different to the other 5, that doesn't show good consistency in the assembly process.

David

Hi David

Thank you.

When reading up on GIK there were a few comments about quality control and about a finish which is good rather than first rate. For me, the compensating issue is that although GIK is US based, their European operation is run out of Bradford only 25 miles from me. So any issues are more easily resolved.

Yes, the room is a touch on the narrow side but neutrality and imaging are ok. I guess I am used to listening to big electrostatics like a huge pair of headphones!

Best wishes,

Ian

[David A]

@IanG-UK,

You're lucky. You've got access to a wider range of acoustic products in the UK than is the case here in Australia and better local representation by the sound of it.

I bought my RealTRAPS panels around 10 years ago or earlier and about the only products available then in Australia were some cheap foam products and maybe Primacoustic and Vicoustic which really didn't have any free standing products plus one firm in Melbourne, 1200 km away, who were the distributor and sole dealer for RealTRAPS which are stand mountable so they can be free-standing. I've been really happy with my RealTRAPS panels though they also have some finish issues, however the firm in Melbourne was a nightmare to deal with. I have to say that I don't think I've ever found another company who made it so difficult for you to make a purchase from them. It took around 6 weeks of to and fro emails just to be able to get a quote so I could place the order. One panel arrived damaged, a big dint in the metal clad side of one of the corner panels, and it took months to get a replacement even though they apparently had panels in stock. I was thinking about ordering another panel or two a couple of years ago and they didn't respond to my first emails, I had to keep following up, and in the end I simply gave up and they lost a sale. It simply wasn't worth the trouble.

If you've got a product with their local operation only 25 miles away from you and issues are easily resolved then you've got a much better situation than I have with my panels. I think RealTRAPS make good products and I would happily recommend them but I won't be buying any more unless they change their Australian distributor to a firm who are a lot easier to deal with.

David

[no32]

Did you treat the ceiling as well ?

In my case I only treated the ceiling by suspended panels about 50 cm from the ceiling, roughly 2/3 of all ceiling area. It did wonders.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk    

[IanG-UK]

Yes I have read that ceiling panels can be influential but I won't be embarking on that for a while. Time to enjoy some music!

[no32]

Yes I have read that ceiling panels can be influential but I won't be embarking on that for a while. Time to enjoy some music!

So true , enjoy


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk