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Sorry, but in a well set up system there are definitly differences to hear between different cables.
Simple example I can give is with my Oppo 103D, the player is connected to my Devialet 200 with a Digital 75ohm RCA cable, but also with a good optical cable.
This way I can easily switch between the two connections, 75ohm digital cable is much preferred, there is more resolution, soundstage is larger and deeper and sounds overall more musical. (no placebo effect !!)
Main Set: Aavik U-300, Magico V3, Wadia 381i, Ayre DX-5 dsd, NBS Black label / Omega 1, Crystal Dreamline, Cardas Clear, Ansuz Ceramic, Aurender N100H, purpose build rack Bubinga wood (175kg rack only)
Second set: Devialet 200, Raidho X1, JL Audio F110 Subs (2x), Oppo BDP103D with audiopraise board, Melco N1A, Uptone Regen, and lots of Ansuz goodies
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(10-Dec-2015, 12:12)imprezap2 Wrote: Sorry, but in a well set up system there are definitly differences to hear between different cables.
...
(no placebo effect !!)
Placebo effect is not something you can rule out simply because you know it exists. Actually placebo works even when people know they are receiving a placebo! ( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25617812)
It doesn't just happen with audio, I like this other example with wines (search for Frédéric Brochet in that article) http://www.newyorker.com/tech/frontal-co...e-the-same
Be sure that nobody is saying you don't hear what you hear. I'm certain you actually hear difference between your cables and that you can describe both sounds in a very different ways, maybe I would too. What we probably disagree on is the "why" we hear those differences. I can't agree more with f1eng, it's just that our brain is wired like that!
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10-Dec-2015, 13:28
(This post was last modified: 10-Dec-2015, 14:02 by Manoet.)
After 3 decades you'd think people from Camp A would stop trying to convince people from Camp B and vice-versa. After 70 years flying this spaceship if I "think" I have a headache, I have a headache! But I'll waste no time trying to get others to help me decide if I do or tell me what works best for me when I do. I'll take the cure of "my" choice be it generic/name-brand, acetaminophen, NSAID or placebo. Admittedly, an effective sugar pill has far fewer contra-indications/side effects... but can't be dependably relied upon to cure my headache. And if I "think" it isn't working, it isn't! Placebo effect is dynamic and cuts both ways. Many here only tout the placebo effect as cost related, ie "spend more/get more" but if you look at the pharmacopeia studies where costs were disclosed they'd find that concept fatally flawed. A more expensive placebo in a double-blind test is almost never preferred, even over a cheap/generic non-placebo.
Statements in my posts are opinion only, not to be construed as fact. Any projects I engage in are at my own risk! Their outcome cannot be assured and may result in success, small/no change or catastrophic failure. I encourage no one rely on anything I say or do as gospel and to realize your mileage may vary!
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(10-Dec-2015, 13:28)Manoet Wrote: After 3 decades you'd think people from Camp A would stop trying to convince people from Camp B and vice-versa. After 70 years flying this spaceship if I "think" I have a headache, I have a headache! But I'll waste no time trying to get others to help me decide if I do or tell me what works best for me when I do. I'll take the cure of "my" choice be it generic/name-brand, acetaminophen, NSAID or placebo. Admittedly, an effective sugar pill has far fewer contra-indications/side effects... but can't be dependably relied upon to cure my headache. And if I "think" it isn't working, it isn't! Placebo effect cuts both ways.
Yes, lets stop with this discussion, be happy with what YOU hear, I rest my ear !
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10-Dec-2015, 14:00
(This post was last modified: 10-Dec-2015, 14:06 by JohnnySix.)
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from Magic."
We are not far enough into the future yet to say what is magic and what isn't!
I'm waiting for a message from my great-great-great-great grandchildren to tell me which aspects of our audio era WERE in fact b*llocks after all.
JRiver v25 (Windows) >> 220Pro/CI >> PMC Twenty5.23 + twin KEF KC62 subs. One White Phantom.
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This thread has me fascinated and surely thats what a good forum is all about.
I have always more or less went along with my dealer recommendations except where he got silly once or twice. Has it been worth it? I have no idea as I have never compared. I just always conformed to the 10% on cables recommendation. Right or wrong ? Again I have no idea.
However I have now put my £5 USB cable in the system to see if I notice a difference in a few days time when i put the Tellerium Q back in.
Like I say I am intrigued.
Devialet 200 -- Roon Nucleus-- Sonus Faber Olympica 2 -- Tellurium Q Black Speaker Cables --
Chord Qutest -- Niimbus US5 Pro Headphone amp —HifiMan HEK, Abyss 1266TC
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I concede that the placebo effect or experimenter's bias is a very real factor when trying out new equipment and accessories. I myself have bought a cable and thought that it made a huge difference only to realise a few days later that it didn't. I imagine the same factor is at play when comparing say a 200 to a 250, or any other piece of equipment.
Having said that I am quite happy spending money on cables since they contribute to my enjoyment of this hobby. That's surely all that matters.
Guillaume
Industry disclosure: UK distributor for Shunyata Research
220 PRO, totaldac d1 server with additional external power supply, totaldac d1-seven, Echole PSU for Totaldac, Wilson Audio Sasha 2, Shunyata Research cables, Shunyata Hydra Alpha A10 + DPC-6 v3, Various Entreq ground boxes and cables, Entreq Athena level 3 rack, 2 X SOtM sNH-10G with sCLK-EX + 10MHz Master Clock input + sPS-500 PSU, i5 sonicTransporter w/ 1TB SSD
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I haven't made a change to my system for a while now. Some days though, it sounds absolutely fantastic and some days it's just that little bit off. I don't have a perfect reference point for where I have my ears so I put the difference to my imperfect seating position. It wouldn't be hard to change out a cable and then sit just in the perfect spot or just that bit more close of further from your speakers.
So, if you hear a difference, how sure are you that it's the cable? For me it's a bit of a no brainer; I know that if I get my ears in the right spot I can enjoy my music to the fullest so I'm not interested in cable swapping. I can surely see why some people would though. After all, you want the best out of your system.
Having said all that, the biggest differences to me in order of significance are;
1. The recording quality
2. The system I play it on
3. The room it plays in
4. How drunk I am. Or, as in the good old days, the more high I was, the more high end my system sounded.
Lifetime Roon, Mac mini, int. SSD, ext. HDD, tv as monitor, key board and track pad on bean bag as remote,Devialet 200, Od'A #097, Blue jeans speaker cable,
Dynaudio C1 MkII.
Jim Smith's GBS.
Northern NSW Australia.
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(10-Dec-2015, 15:21)GuillaumeB Wrote: Having said that I am quite happy spending money on cables since they contribute to my enjoyment of this hobby. That's surely all that matters.
Guillaume
This point is spot on.
Devialet 200 -- Roon Nucleus-- Sonus Faber Olympica 2 -- Tellurium Q Black Speaker Cables --
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Nice to see the Devialet Expert experts in a Phantom thread!
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