Tidal MQA?

[Gremlin]

You will certainly get no better sound quality and probably worse sound quality.

It's as simple as that.

[streamy]

Thanks for your opinion, everyone. I don't want this thread to turn into a debate on MQA... I think there are a plenty of other threads that discuss the MQA topic in depth. I personally don't care if I don't get the full MQA: I just want a better sound quality than what I can get from Airplay because I know my golds can handle much more than that. Having said that, I think I will go with Bluesound Node 2 and connect it directly to the dialog using optical. From what I've researched that offers the best bang for the buck.

My question is, if I did Laptop (Windows 10, probably Bluesound app and Tidal MQA) --(wifi)--> Bluesound Node 2 --(optical)--> dialog, and if I play a 24/192 track, what's the sound quality I will get? I couldn't find a crystal clear answer to this question. Note that I will not be using Roon since I understand the MQA support via Tidal - Roon - Bluesound is yet to come.

In my opinion the best bang for the buck you will get with a RPi3B+ and digi+ or a hifiberry digi+ board that can operate as a roon Roon RAAT device. Quite straight forward and with best SQ for up to 192k/24bit. Works 100% reliably for me. I feed my Phantoms through the optical input with the optical output of the digi+ board. My Roon core streams via wifi to the Rpi3B, not even the plus version without any dropouts for all file formats up to 24/192k.

[birrr]

You will certainly get no better sound quality and probably worse sound quality.

It's as simple as that.

Really?? That's different from what I heard/read.

[NevB]

My question is, if I did Laptop (Windows 10, probably Bluesound app and Tidal MQA) --(wifi)--> Bluesound Node 2 --(optical)--> dialog, and if I play a 24/192 track, what's the sound quality I will get? I couldn't find a crystal clear answer to this question. Note that I will not be using Roon since I understand the MQA support via Tidal - Roon - Bluesound is yet to come.

The Bluesound Node 2 will perform the first MQA unfolding to a max of 24/96 to a non MQA certified DAC.

This might help, or confuse ...
https://helpdesk.bluesound.com/discussio...0&start=20

[Confused]

You will certainly get no better sound quality and probably worse sound quality.

It's as simple as that.

Really?? That's different from what I heard/read.

@birrr  You mentioned that you did not want this thread to be a debate regarding MQA, I respect that, and for anyone who does want the debate there are plenty of other places for that.

I have read a lot about the pro's and con's of MQA, and I think it can be summarised very easily.  MQA is technically a 'lossy' format, in this respect it is difficult to see how it can outperform a lossless format such as simple 24/96 PCM.  Furthermore, MQA claim to improve sound quality using special 'deburring' techniques and similar, but most of this has now been pretty much debunked, nothing more than audio filtering techniques that already exist in software like HQPlayer and SoX.  I think it is this kind of stuff that @Gremlin is referring to.

There is a flip side to this though, there is some evidence that most of the music released on MQA is a different master when compared to the PCM release, sometimes less compressed, or maybe a better overall EQ, this kind of thing.  For this reason, MQA can sound better, irrespective of all the folding and unfolding nonsense.  Of course, a different master may sound worse to some ears, this is a subjective point as to what is definitively 'better'.  Without question, the MQA version can sound different.  In fact, this is proving to be a bit of an issue with those who want to compare MQA to conventional PCM, it is very difficult to find any music where both the MQA and PCM versions are definitely from the same master.  The difference between masters can be massively bigger than the difference between PCM and MQA, so how can you tell which is best?

Now back to your original question.  One point I would like to make here is that the 'last unfold' is nothing more than upsampling in the DAC with some filtering, the last unfold is not adding audio data.  I very much doubt that this method would improve the sound quality within Devialet's ADH core, remember the ADH is doing it's own upsampling anyway.  This last unfold also uses minimum phase filtering, from my experience (and others) with HQPlayer on the Expert, this is not the best for use with ADH.

So I think if you are using Tidal to do the initial unfolding (or maybe Roon in the future), then you are getting all the MQA goodness that you need with a Phantom.  I really would not worry about that last unfold, in real terms it makes little difference and with ADH products like the Phantom it could make things worse.

Some manufacturers have struggled with MQA implementation, to the point which the MQA implementation has compromised performance with conventional formats, I suspect Devialet will leave it well alone due to the complexities of ADH, and it might be best if they do just this.

[dorisam]

Own 2 golds and am loving the sound. Mostly listen from Tidal through Air Play using Roon.
I really want to stream Tidal MQA version (using laptop). Do the phantoms support MQA? If so what do typical set ups look like?

I use Audiorvana+ to play MQA and hi-res music from NAS of Phantoms.  Audiorvana+ is similar to Roon, but cheaper.  It does not have all bells and whistles of Roon, but does the job for me.

Set-up is easy:

1.  Enable UPNP Rendering Beta on Dialog/Phantoms
2.  in Audiorvana+ settings, select your Phantoms, and use set-up as in the pic attached here.
3.  Login to Tidal in Audiorvana+
4. (optional for NAS) - Add you NAS folders to Audiorvana+ Libary

I had to connect Phantoms to Dialog with ethernet cables to play 24/192 files.  If you network is not robust, limit Max PCM to 96.  When playing DSD64 or higher files, it might be a bit jumpy at the beginning of the track - just pause, let it load, and then play the music.

HAPPY LISTENING!


   

[ogs]

Confused is right, often there is a difference in the master. One very obvious, but a little unusual example is 'Fairytales' by Radka Toneff and Steve Dobrogosz. Read John Atkinson's review here: https://www.stereophile.com/content/reco...dition-mqa and Bob Stuart's description here: http://bobtalks.co.uk/blog/white-glove/w...airytales/
After Roon brought MQA 1st unfold in version 1.5 I bought the MQA Fairytales. The restored Fairytales is not available as HiRes PCM, only MQA (I wonder why..) It sounds very nice, better than the CD rip I had. This is the only MQA album I own. I bought it because I wanted the restored master of this lovely album.

[Damon]

I don't know if the Sonos supports MQA, but a modified Sonos: Connect (W'yred4Sound or Magna, depending on your continent) will certainly provide better SQ than a Bluesound II. I have no opinion on MQA, and I believe even a modded Sonos won't do more than 24/ 96 (that is what mine is set to) but it might be an option worth considering for general streaming.

If I'm off-base about your interests, or in the wrong ballpark altogether, my apologies.

[snbeall]

Isn’t optical limited to 24/96 by SPDIF specs anyway? Trying to get anything above the first unfold through an optical link would be pointless?