To upgrade or not?

[Sailor4W]

Dear Devialet Users!

I bought a Devialet Expert 120 almost two years ago. During that time, my audio chain changed a lot. At the moment, I have a SonicTransport i5 housing my library and running Roon Server. The SonicTransporter is connected via Ethernet to a USBridge Signature fed by the Shanti LPS. The USBridge Signature feeds into the Devialet Expert 120 via USB, while the Devialet powers my ATC SCM19 speakers.

I do love the dynamic, neutral, powerful sound of the Devialet. No discussion about that! It's totally quiet, the music just flows out of a dark background with perfect smoothness. I do enjoy my system.

When I bought the used unit from a local dealer, he immediately pointed towards upgrading to the Expert Pro 220. I first wanted to see how the Expert 120 sounded without immediately committing to the upgrade. Now, after almost two years, I am considering upgrading. BUT ...

First of all, the upgrade will be a hefty 4,500 Euros! In terms of functionality. Of course, I'd get 220W per channel and a better amplifier. But with regard to Roon, would I get anything?. I have read long discussions about Devialet's problems implementing the RAAT protocol with the CI board. I don't even know if those issues have been solved in the meantime. My system runs RAAT perfectly via the USBridge Sig setup. So RAAT would not be such an issue for me.

Besides upgrading to the Expert Pro 220 (I definitely am tempted), I could also switch entirely to a new system.

A major hurdle holding me back is Devialet's DAC. It's an all-in-one system, I understand this, but seeing the developments of those great DACs going on, I ask myself if one isn't just too limited with the Devialet system. To me it seems that Devialet tweaks so many things in their amps, but (as far as I understand), the DAC remains untouched. 

So what I am saying is that flexibility is an important aspect for me.

If not upgrading to the Expert Pro 220, my decision would be towards the Benchmark DAC3 HGC/AHB2 power amp. Easy to use, and upgradable system.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

Best regards to all!

[Dan]

If I were you I would either be happy with your current model or switch to Benchmark. Benchmark has an easy system to allow you to test one in your home - why not give them a try? (not sure if they do this outside the US...)

[Sailor4W]

Of course, there's the option of staying with my current setup. I went to see a local dealer to enquire about an upgrade and he was praising the Expert Pro 220 of being so superior to the one I have. I took it with a grain of salt as I know how dealers are ...

Benchmark does have a 30-day trial period, but only in the US. But reading through those rave reviews Benchmark gets with their products, I do not assume I'd run a risk.

[ogs]

But you'd need a preamp or at least a DAC that can drive the power amp directly. I agree that the Benchmark amp is interesting and you could easily swap DACs, but the DAC chip integrated in Devialet's ADH can not be compared directly to a separate DAC. Not even the same chip in a separate DAC would sound the same as the one integrated. ADH is quite unique.
I believe the 220 Pro CI is a bit better than the 120. The only way to know for sure is to try both the Benchmark and 220, if possible. Also, quite a few members of this forum upgraded from 120 to 220 Pro CI and would be able to comment on the difference.

[mdconnelly]

@Sailor4W - First off, no, Devialet has yet to resolve the Roon RAAT over gigabit ethernet issue. In my system to my ears, streaming Roon via RAAT or AIR to ethernet input does sound better than USB input, but I wouldn't say substantially. That was true even when all I had was a D200. You can certainly stream via AIR to your ethernet input instead of USB if you wanted so I suspect you prefer the USB Signature to USB input in which case I suspect you'd prefer it over RAAT to ethernet on a 220 as well.

I saw another thread by you from back in late 2018 with similar questions about the 220. I would definitely encourage you to compare the sound of a 220 to your 120 if at all possible before committing to the 4500 Euro upgrade cost. I don't doubt the 220 would be a step-up, but it is a substantial expense that opens a lot of other possibilities as @Dan suggested with Benchmark. I also suspect you could find a used 220 Pro CI still under warranty for a lot less than the 4500 Euro upgrade price.

[Sailor4W]

If I were you I would either be happy with your current model or switch to Benchmark. Benchmark has an easy system to allow you to test one in your home - why not give them a try? (not sure if they do this outside the US...)

But you'd need a preamp or at least a DAC that can drive the power amp directly. I agree that the Benchmark amp is interesting and you could easily swap DACs, but the DAC chip integrated in Devialet's ADH can not be compared directly to a separate DAC. Not even the same chip in a separate DAC would sound the same as the one integrated. ADH is quite unique.
I believe the 220 Pro CI is a bit better than the 120. The only way to know for sure is to try both the Benchmark and 220, if possible. Also, quite a few members of this forum upgraded from 120 to 220 Pro CI and would be able to comment on the difference.

Benchmark says that the DAC3 is designed to drive the AHB2 directly as it has a volume control and the units can be matched perfectly in terms of DAC output and amp sensitivity.

I do see that it is difficult to compare Devialet's DAC concept with other DACs. What I meant more was that the Devs remain to be restricted to 24/192, as far as I understand.

[Damon]

Hi @Sailor4W
I can't remember if I've recently posted something like this for you or others, so my apologies if I'm adding repetition or clutter.

I went from a D120 to the D220 Pro then CI. It is more power but the sound is different as well. From 2016 & 2017 there was a lengthy discussion about the differences in the sonic character of the Pro and CI versions. I think this is the thread, or one of them:

https://devialetchat.com/Thread-Expert-P...ty?page=21

I don't know if the upgrade is worth it, in terms of cost, and I don't know anything about the Benchmark products. But if a more modular product is appealing then something other than the Devialet may be better regardless of sound characteristics. Or a used D220 Pro CI?

If you can compare a D120 to a D220 Pro either at home or at the dealer, that would be helpful; they really are different.  As a start, looking at some of the posts about the upgrade might be interesting (or mind-numbing). I think there was also a thread later about the sonic changes that came with the CI upgrade.

[Sailor4W]

@Sailor4W  - First off, no, Devialet has yet to resolve the Roon RAAT over gigabit ethernet issue.  In my system to my ears, streaming Roon via RAAT or AIR to ethernet input does sound better than USB input, but I wouldn't say substantially.  That was true even when all I had was a D200.  You can certainly stream via AIR to your ethernet input instead of USB if you wanted so I suspect you prefer the USB Signature to USB input in which case I suspect you'd prefer it over RAAT to ethernet on a 220 as well. 

I saw another thread by you from back in late 2018 with similar questions about the 220.  I would definitely encourage you to compare the sound of a 220 to your 120 if at all possible before committing to the 4500 Euro upgrade cost.  I don't doubt the 220 would be a step-up, but it is a substantial expense that opens a lot of other possibilities as @Dan suggested with Benchmark.  I also suspect you could find a used 220 Pro CI still under warranty for a lot less than the 4500 Euro upgrade price.

I must say that Devialet's AIR always worked flawlessly in my setup (gigabit ethernet). However, I do prefer my current USB setup over AIR, it's just more pleasant to listen to than ethernet/AIR (a bit brightish for my taste).

Good suggestion for comparing a 220 Pro. Unfortunately, my dealer doesn't have one, I think he could only provide a 140 Pro to try out. So it's a bit of a problem.

I looked for used 220 Pro CIs but couldn't find one (at least I didn't look too deeply). But it's a viable option, for sure!

[Sailor4W]

Devialet Expert Pro is what it is: a one box integrated. There’s no tweaking with cables or USB decrapifiers, a new DAC, an new pre, or amp, everything is on one box, and it just works. Roon integration is fantastic, with auto source switching and volume control, power on/off, and sleep, there’s even a built in phono stage. Everything is right there! Is a 220 is “better” than a 120? Probably yes, like a 250 is “better” than a 220... Devialet have an upgrade path. Good, better, best. But the concept is the same, it’s highly integrated and closed.

Benchmark looks like an interesting alternative, as separates. Roon requires an external streamer, and there’s no auto source switching, on/off and volume is from the remote, not the app... An amp, pre and dac comes to around the price of a 220 pro. I’d suggest the Devialet offers more, whilst at the same time not giving a tweaker any flexibility.

I’m not sure an “upgrade” from 120 to 220 is the way to go... perhaps sell one, and buy the other?

I am aware of the one-box solution, that's why I was attracted to Devialet in the first place. I wanted a simple setup and that's what I got with the Expert 120. No problem whatsoever. I know about the upgrade path, that's why I am still interested in going this route. However, I am asking myself if this perfect one-box solution to a 220 Pro isn't a one-way road. What comes after the 220 Pro?

One wouldn't need a pre-amp with Benchmark's DAC3. I know many people going straight via XLRs to the AHB2. I'm citing Benchmark's web page: 'Benchmark [i][b]DAC1[/b][/i], [i][b]DAC2[/b][/i], and [i][b]DAC3[/b][/i] converters are designed to directly drive power amplifiers and speakers.'

[Sailor4W]

Hi @Sailor4W
I can't remember if I've recently posted something like this for you or others, so my apologies if I'm adding repetition or clutter.

I went from a D120 to the D220 Pro then CI. It is more power but the sound is different as well. From 2016 & 2017 there was a lengthy discussion about the differences in the sonic character of the Pro and CI versions. I think this is the thread, or one of them:

https://devialetchat.com/Thread-Expert-P...ty?page=21

I don't know if the upgrade is worth it, in terms of cost, and I don't know anything about the Benchmark products. But if a more modular product is appealing then something other than the Devialet may be better regardless of sound characteristics. Or a used D220 Pro CI?

If you can compare a D120 to a D220 Pro either at home or at the dealer, that would be helpful; they really are different.  As a start, looking at some of the posts about the upgrade might be interesting (or mind-numbing). I think there was also a thread later about the sonic changes that came with the CI upgrade.

Thank you very much for the link! Will read it up! Most helpful!