What were your previous systems (prior to the Phantoms)?

[alandbush]

The mere fact that you are moving away from ATC to any other brand is tantamount to heresy on that site.

One of the members hear moved from (I think) 4 x Active ATC 150 plus dual subs to BW 802 and Devialet 200 and said it sounded much better, the harrumphing from Pink Fish could be heard by the New Horizons probe. So you going from active ATC 50 to these "toy speakers" would liven up things

Ah, I see and I can appreciate their loyalty.  I gave them a good 20 year run, but I can honestly say I have no regrets.

[Confused]

I think I may me starting to get this Phantom versus the rest debate. A couple of years back I did spend some time listening to the fully active ATC 100 towers, with the more expensive ATC pre-amp. Should this be compared to a pair of Phantoms? Not really, the pre-amp alone is about the price of two silvers and a Dialog. The thing is though, I didn't like the ATC's that much. Which is strange considering that they were excellent in almost every respect. The problem for me was with the bass, the bass too was excellent in almost every respect, bass accuracy was good, they could reach down to very low frequencies. The problem was there simply wasn't much of it, so you ended up thinking they might need a subwoofer or two. Depending on your personal taste, both in sound reproduction equipment or indeed music, this may or may not be an issue. However, if you are after a bit of bass power, drums having the power and impact of real drums, the ATC's don't quite pull it off, everything is there and beautifully reproduced, but the impact and power of the bass was missing. Perhaps not what you might expect from something with 12" bass drivers. Other aspects of the ATC's were truly superb, midrange detail and similar is top class. I feel much the same about the B&W 800 Diamonds, which I was once lucky enough to hear partnered with a very expensive Naim front end, again an excellent tool if you wish to analyse every detail of the music, all aspects of the bass was there, but not the level of punch or shear bass volume some might want.

I need to be a little carful now and will not claim these are definitive conclusions, I have only had a short time listening to the Phantoms, and my time with both the ATC's and the B&W's was about two years ago. But here is a conclusion anyway, the Phantoms do loose a little in the mid-range versus much more expensive kit like the ATC's or B&W's (both reckoned to be excellent in this area), but depending on what you are looking for, and how much emphasis you put on realistically and powerfully produced bass, many might choose the Phantoms over more expensive systems. Others with different priorities may not.

At the end of the day, it's like anything else, it might be useful to read reviews or the views of others on the internet, this might provide a few pointers here and there but to know for sure, have a listen for yourself.

[Chillin]

I was using the following conventional setup before I bought my silver Phantoms:

WLM Diva Mk II Speakers ( Coax )
Trafomatic Experience II 300b single ended tube amp
Opera Consonance Droplet 5.0 CD Player
Nubert AW 1300 DSP Subwoofer for some material

Soundstage is very good. My setup is a widened stereo triangle with the Phantoms turned in to my listening spot. I experimented with some stands and found out that they sounded best on stands of about 60cms height. As drivers for mids and heights are tilted upwards a little this height gives the most realistic projection.

Clarity is above average but when the material gets complex they are missing some info. Compared to my former coaxial speakers they are less detailed.

Timbre is nice. Acoustical instruments sound as they should. Saxophone, trumpets, voices are what I consider to be very realistic. Mids are fast. Unfortunately the bass somewhat lacks this tempo. As long as we are talking about bass impulses all is fine. Drums are great, so is acoustic or electronic bass. Some songs have bass lines that start at higher frequences and then drop down continuesly until the deepest frequences. The Phantoms are not very good in reproducing that kind of bass. My guess is that they simply are not able to transport enough air in these cases. As not many songs are like that it is not really a big thing.

Dynamics are great. I used to listen to Coax and Broadband concepts before and think that Phantoms are equally dynamic. You could think that it is a one driver system as the whole frequency range is reproduced equally well with no "holes" you would discover in the frequence range.

Low volume is not what I expected it to be. In my listening room which is about 40 sqm they live up at 40/100. Lower volumes result in a light curtain drawn in front of them. In addition it appears as if there is a slight loudness effect at low levels.

I decided to keep them because they are good. They are not the best I had so far but they are good. With some music material they are fantastic.

But spark app really is disgusting. No playlists but a sinle one. In addition my Playlist is gone every three or four days. So the only way is to use the optical input and use Spark for volume control only. This is the worst piece of spftware somebody ever sold together with a 4k piece of equipement.

As I am not,a native speaker I was lacking some phrases in my description. I hope I nevertheless was able to explain my experience.

[Dvlt PhD]

I was using the following conventional setup before I bought my silver Phantoms:

WLM Diva Mk II Speakers ( Coax )
Trafomatic Experience II 300b single ended tube amp
Opera Consonance Droplet 5.0 CD Player
Nubert AW 1300 DSP Subwoofer for some material

Soundstage is very good. My setup is a widened stereo triangle with the Phantoms turned in to my listening spot. I experimented with some stands and found out that they sounded best on stands of about 60cms height. As drivers for mids and heights are tilted upwards a little this height gives the most realistic projection.

Clarity is above average but when the material gets complex they are missing some info. Compared to my former coaxial speakers they are less detailed.

Timbre is nice. Acoustical instruments sound as they should. Saxophone, trumpets, voices are what I consider to be very realistic. Mids are fast. Unfortunately the bass somewhat lacks this tempo. As long as we are talking about bass impulses all is fine. Drums are great, so is acoustic or electronic bass. Some songs have bass lines that start at higher frequences and then drop down continuesly until the deepest frequences. The Phantoms are not very good in reproducing that kind of bass. My guess is that they simply are not able to transport enough air in these cases. As not many songs are like that it is not really a big thing.

Dynamics are great. I used to listen to Coax and Broadband concepts before and think that Phantoms are equally dynamic. You could think that it is a one driver system as the whole frequency range is reproduced equally well with no "holes" you would discover in the frequence range.

Low volume is not what I expected it to be. In my listening room which is about 40 sqm they live up at 40/100. Lower volumes result in a light curtain drawn in front of them. In addition it appears as if there is a slight loudness effect at low levels.

I decided to keep them because they are good. They are not the best I had so far but they are good. With some music material they are fantastic.

But spark app really is disgusting. No playlists but a sinle one. In addition my Playlist is gone every three or four days. So the only way is to use the optical input and use Spark for volume control only. This is the worst piece of spftware somebody ever sold together with a 4k piece of equipement.

As I am not,a native speaker I was lacking some phrases in my description. I hope I nevertheless was able to explain my experience.

Thank you.

Can you expand on the bold quote above, please?

[nugat]

Will you keep them along your current setup, in the same room?
Would you recommend them for jazz/classics?
My current setup in the listening room is AirTight tube amp and Dali Grands and that's the sound I like.
I'd like to get  a similar sound quality in the living room room, which needs the least obtrusive equipment 
configuration, so am considering various options.
I am worried a bit about the low level sound though.
TIA for your advice.




I was using the following conventional setup before I bought my silver Phantoms:

WLM Diva Mk II Speakers ( Coax )
Trafomatic Experience II 300b single ended tube amp
Opera Consonance Droplet 5.0 CD Player
Nubert AW 1300 DSP Subwoofer for some material

Soundstage is very good. My setup is a widened stereo triangle with the Phantoms turned in to my listening spot. I experimented with some stands and found out that they sounded best on stands of about 60cms height. As drivers for mids and heights are tilted upwards a little this height gives the most realistic projection.

Clarity is above average but when the material gets complex they are missing some info. Compared to my former coaxial speakers they are less detailed.

Timbre is nice. Acoustical instruments sound as they should. Saxophone, trumpets, voices are what I consider to be very realistic. Mids are fast. Unfortunately the bass somewhat lacks this tempo. As long as we are talking about bass impulses all is fine. Drums are great, so is acoustic or electronic bass. Some songs have bass lines that start at higher frequences and then drop down continuesly until the deepest frequences. The Phantoms are not very good in reproducing that kind of bass. My guess is that they simply are not able to transport enough air in these cases. As not many songs are like that it is not really a big thing.

Dynamics are great. I used to listen to Coax and Broadband concepts before and think that Phantoms are equally dynamic. You could think that it is a one driver system as the whole frequency range is reproduced equally well with no "holes" you would discover in the frequence range.

Low volume is not what I expected it to be. In my listening room which is about 40 sqm they live up at 40/100. Lower volumes result in a light curtain drawn in front of them. In addition it appears as if there is a slight loudness effect at low levels.

I decided to keep them because they are good. They are not the best I had so far but they are good. With some music material they are fantastic.

But spark app really is disgusting. No playlists but a sinle one. In addition my Playlist is gone every three or four days. So the only way is to use the optical input and use Spark for volume control only. This is the worst piece of spftware somebody ever sold together with a 4k piece of equipement.

As I am not,a native speaker I was lacking some phrases in my description. I hope I nevertheless was able to explain my experience.

[Chillin]

Thank you.

Can you expand on the bold quote above, please?

My impression is that when working at low levels bass is too big compared to mids and heights.

[Dvlt PhD]

Thank you.

Can you expand on the bold quote above, please?

My impression is that when working at low levels bass is too big compared to mids and heights.

At what low volumes do you feel this way?
What's the size of the room you experience this?

Thanks.

p.s - Do your silvers get as low volume as you want them to? Meaning that if you go to volume 0, you get zero audio, and if you go to volume 1, you get barely any audio?... and volume 2, and 3 respectively...

[Chillin]

Thank you.

Can you expand on the bold quote above, please?

My impression is that when working at low levels bass is too big compared to mids and heights.

At what low volumes do you feel this way?
What's the size of the room you experience this?

Thanks.

p.s - Do your silvers get as low volume as you want them to? Meaning that if you go to volume 0, you get zero audio, and if you go to volume 1, you get barely any audio?... and volume 2, and 3 respectively...

They are muted at 0. I don't know when they are starting to emit noise. I do not buy speaker of that quality to listen to the lowest possible volumes :-) In these cases a good headphone might be the better choice.

Some people here are experiencing that Phantoms are loud at setting 25/100. In my eyes they are getting loud at 55-60. At 25 they are not loud enough to have a good soundstage and they are lacking the air that in my eyes is necessary to have a good listening experience.

My room is about 40 sqm as already stated in my original post. Old Jazz recordings from Verve definitely will need 60 to open up and give a realistic impression. But hey, of course that's my personal opinion. Other peeps may see it differently. If you prefer to listen to Britney Spears maybe 40 already is loud enough.

[Chillin]

Will you keep them along your current setup, in the same room?
Would you recommend them for jazz/classics?
My current setup in the listening room is AirTight tube amp and Dali Grands and that's the sound I like.
I'd like to get  a similar sound quality in the living room room, which needs the least obtrusive equipment 
configuration, so am considering various options.
I am worried a bit about the low level sound though.
TIA for your advice.

No. They will replace my current system. I definitely recommend them for Jazz.

Some examples I consider to be very good examples of what the speakers are capable of:

- Getz & Jobim Girl from Ipanema. The voices as well as the sax are wonderfully reproduced. The moment when Gilberto starts to sing about 3m to the right of the right speaker is pure magic ;-)

- Oscar Peterson, we got request. Song: You look good to me. Wonderful bass. Piano with reduced distortion copared to my old system. Very good soundstage and extremely 'groovie' presentation.

- Billie Holiday, Songs for distingued lovers ( or similar ) - Song Day in Day out. One of the best songs ever. Phantoms create a great soundstage. The voice is brilliant

I definitely can recommend them for Jazz.

But they definitely will sound different than you Dali's. Dali's are convetional multi chassis systems while Phantoms are Coax systems. Phantoms's soundstage will be much better. They are extremely fast. Much faster than the Dalis. It could be that their dynamics are too much you if you are used to the Grands.

As already stated I don't really care about low level sound. I never had a system that really was performing very good at low levels and Phantom isn't an exception. If you have to listen at low volumes due to neighborhood you better go for a very good headphone.

[Dvlt PhD]

Will you keep them along your current setup, in the same room?
Would you recommend them for jazz/classics?
My current setup in the listening room is AirTight tube amp and Dali Grands and that's the sound I like.
I'd like to get  a similar sound quality in the living room room, which needs the least obtrusive equipment 
configuration, so am considering various options.
I am worried a bit about the low level sound though.
TIA for your advice.

No. They will replace my current system. I definitely recommend them for Jazz.

Some examples I consider to be very good examples of what the speakers are capable of:

- Getz & Jobim Girl from Ipanema. The voices as well as the sax are wonderfully reproduced. The moment when Gilberto starts to sing about 3m to the right of the right speaker is pure magic ;-)

- Oscar Peterson, we got request. Song: You look good to me. Wonderful bass. Piano with reduced distortion copared to my old system. Very good soundstage and extremely 'groovie' presentation.

- Billie Holiday, Songs for distingued lovers ( or similar ) - Song Day in Day out. One of the best songs ever. Phantoms create a great soundstage. The voice is brilliant

I definitely can recommend them for Jazz.

But they definitely will sound different than you Dali's. Dali's are convetional multi chassis systems while Phantoms are Coax systems. Phantoms's soundstage will be much better. They are extremely fast. Much faster than the Dalis. It could be that their dynamics are too much you if you are used to the Grands.

As already stated I don't really care about low level sound. I never had a system that really was performing very good at low levels and Phantom isn't an exception. If you have to listen at low volumes due to neighborhood you better go for a very good headphone.

Wow, so if Phantoms have great bass, and voices/singing sounds great... then I don't know how a pair can be a bad investment...

I don't listen to Jazz, though.