Which sounds best? Roon RAAT or Roon Integrated AIR

[NickB]

This is a great point. I don’t have a newer ci version, so I can’t tell if raat is better than air myself, but I have noticed that with different inputs, that one volume level can be louder than the other and this will give the initial impression that it’s “better”, but if you get out your dB reader and ensure both inputs are at the same level, you might change your mind.

If you haven't played with volume levelling, RAAT and AIR are the same. If you think about it, all digital inputs get some sort of bit perfect input. Unless there's some kind of DSP going on, there shouldn't be any difference.

Air without a doubt,  more natural sounding than Roon, improved boogie factor compared to Roon.  In my set-up after the firmaware update, the sound is perfect via AIR.

You seem to be in a minority of 0 in this poll

[douglas]

If you haven't played with volume levelling, RAAT and AIR are the same. If you think about it, all digital inputs get some sort of bit perfect input. Unless there's some kind of DSP going on, there shouldn't be any difference.

Air without a doubt,  more natural sounding than Roon, improved boogie factor compared to Roon.  In my set-up after the firmware update, the sound is perfect via AIR.

You seem to be in a minority of 0 in this poll

  When I downloaded the firmware, I listened for a while with AIR and I was blown away by the sound. Then I jumped onto the Roon bandwagon, and immediately heard a wider and higher soundstage, I mean who does not like a wider soundstage, but I just could not listen for long periods, and the music was simply not involving.  There was a slight sheen in the mids that was not natural. I actually thought something else was going on, like poor electricity. 

After about 3 days I switched back to AIR and immediate the magic was back, my foot started tapping, it was uncanny. The soundstage was narrower, and lower, but deeper and more layered.  The presentation was far more natural via AIR and the bass was also more detailed and defined. I won't switch back to Roon Ready unless there's an update.

[douglas]

Air without a doubt,  more natural sounding than Roon, improved boogie factor compared to Roon.  In my set-up after the firmware update, the sound is perfect via AIR.

You seem to be in a minority of 0 in this poll

  When I downloaded the firmware, I listened for a while with AIR and I was blown away by the sound. Then I jumped onto the Roon bandwagon, and immediately heard a wider and higher soundstage, I mean who does not like a wider soundstage, but I just could not listen for long periods, and the music was simply not involving.  There was a slight sheen in the mids that was not natural. I actually thought something else was going on, like poor electricity. 

After about 3 days I switched back to AIR and immediate the magic was back, my foot started tapping, it was uncanny. The soundstage was narrower, and lower, but deeper and more layered.  The presentation was far more natural via AIR and the bass was also more detailed and defined. I won't switch back to Roon Ready unless there's an update.

My Strads don't lie 

[David A]

You seem to be in a minority of 0 in this poll

  When I downloaded the firmware, I listened for a while with AIR and I was blown away by the sound. Then I jumped onto the Roon bandwagon, and immediately heard a wider and higher soundstage, I mean who does not like a wider soundstage, but I just could not listen for long periods, and the music was simply not involving.  There was a slight sheen in the mids that was not natural. I actually thought something else was going on, like poor electricity. 

After about 3 days I switched back to AIR and immediate the magic was back, my foot started tapping, it was uncanny. The soundstage was narrower, and lower, but deeper and more layered.  The presentation was far more natural via AIR and the bass was also more detailed and defined. I won't switch back to Roon Ready unless there's an update.

My Strads don't lie 

I think you missed NickB's point. This is a survey thread and the response count shows 0 people prefer AIR. You're saying you prefer AIR but your response isn't going to be counted unless you actually vote and get included in the count.

There's no point in posting an opinion in a thread like this unless you also vote. If you don't vote, a lot of people are simply going to look at the count of responses and see a large number preferring RAAT,  a lot saying they hear no difference or aren't certain, some saying they can't be bothered making the comparison, and no one saying they prefer AIR.

Register your preference in the count by voting. Many people find seeing the numerical summary helpful. Then you will no longer be in a minority of 0 because without your vote the summary indicates that no one prefers AIR.

[douglas]

  When I downloaded the firmware, I listened for a while with AIR and I was blown away by the sound. Then I jumped onto the Roon bandwagon, and immediately heard a wider and higher soundstage, I mean who does not like a wider soundstage, but I just could not listen for long periods, and the music was simply not involving.  There was a slight sheen in the mids that was not natural. I actually thought something else was going on, like poor electricity. 

After about 3 days I switched back to AIR and immediate the magic was back, my foot started tapping, it was uncanny. The soundstage was narrower, and lower, but deeper and more layered.  The presentation was far more natural via AIR and the bass was also more detailed and defined. I won't switch back to Roon Ready unless there's an update.

My Strads don't lie 

I think you missed NickB's point. This is a survey thread and the response count shows 0 people prefer AIR. You're saying you prefer AIR but your response isn't going to be counted unless you actually vote and get included in the count.

There's no point in posting an opinion in a thread like this unless you also vote. If you don't vote, a lot of people are simply going to look at the count of responses and see a large number preferring RAAT,  a lot saying they hear no difference or aren't certain, some saying they can't be bothered making the comparison, and no one saying they prefer AIR.

Register your preference in the count by voting. Many people find seeing the numerical summary helpful. Then you will no longer be in a minority of 0 because without your vote the summary indicates that no one prefers AIR.

I see there's one vote now, happy!. Be cool. It was a quick response based on prior comments.

[BoyScout]

My Strads don't lie 

I think you missed NickB's point. This is a survey thread and the response count shows 0 people prefer AIR. You're saying you prefer AIR but your response isn't going to be counted unless you actually vote and get included in the count.

There's no point in posting an opinion in a thread like this unless you also vote. If you don't vote, a lot of people are simply going to look at the count of responses and see a large number preferring RAAT,  a lot saying they hear no difference or aren't certain, some saying they can't be bothered making the comparison, and no one saying they prefer AIR.

Register your preference in the count by voting. Many people find seeing the numerical summary helpful. Then you will no longer be in a minority of 0 because without your vote the summary indicates that no one prefers AIR.

I see there's one vote now, happy!. Be cool. It was a quick response based on prior comments.

Two votes, actually. After a few attempts i have not a doubt: Roon AIR is better in my system.

[David A]

I'm glad to see those who thing AIR is better starting to vote. We need them to vote so we can have a reasonable idea of the numbers for AIR and the numbers for RAAT as a percentage of the whole but in the end it comes down to personal taste and there are no rights or wrongs in personal taste.

@Pim Pim said in an early response that it might be useful if people stated their source but I think it's useful if people state their whole system because lots of things can affect sound quality. It might be interesting to make all sorts of different correlations but one stood out for me after the last posts by @douglas and @BoyScout. Both have voted for AIR and both are using Sonus Faber speakers. I checked back over the rest of the thread and no one else is using Sonus Fabers. That may indicate that speaker choice can influence which option is preferred.

It also may not. We've got 51 votes and only 8 of us, if I've counted correctly, have listed our speakers. That means there's 43 votes for which we have no speaker information and while it's tempting to look at the data we have and draw a conclusion like "Sonus Faber owners prefer AIR" it's possible that isn't the case and a large number of the 43 people for whom we have no speaker information could prefer Sonus Faber which would totally invalidate that conclusion. It would be nice to have a lot more info so we could see whether there really are any correlations between system choices and RAAT/AIR preference.

[Confused]

I think @Pim made a good point when he suggested that the source might be a factor. Back in the early days, AIR was very unstable with MS Windows users but seemed stable with those who used a Mac. As a result of this, there was perhaps a feeling that Air with the Mac might be superior. It was not this simple though. I was never that sure, it seemed to me that Mac users were trying different sources and finding them better than AIR, whereas Windows users were perhaps not finding such an improvement. One day AIR 3 came along, Mac only and many Mac users claimed a big jump in sound quality. AIR 3 arrived for windows, and there did not appear to be much change in SQ for Windows users. This lead to a theory that Windows AIR, despite it's instability, might have been the better sounding all along. The fact is, everyone was using Mac AIR if they had a Mac, or Windows AIR if they had a PC, and nobody had tried the two back to back. Nobody except for Rufus, that is, who if I recall correctly had a marginal preference for Windows AIR. After that, there was much speculation that AIR was much improved, relative to other external sources, with the Pro versus the old Expert. So many variables, but I think it would be interesting to look at the source, in terms of if it is a Mac or a PC.

That said, it may just be personal preference, or our minds tricking us. Humans like to look for patterns, for example, I have noticed that those who prefer AIR or have no preference tend to have usernames in the first half of the alphabet, whereas those who prefer RAAT are more likely to be in the second half.

The results are interesting though, with the fairly high percentage of people reporting that they are similar or the same, you would expect the final preference between AIR and RAAT to be reasonably even, but it is not, there is a clear preference for RAAT. For me, I had a theory that AIR might be best, simply because AIR is specifically designed for use with a Devialet Expert, whereas RAAT is "universal" for many products. Perhaps RAAT did sound better, but that thought biased me towards AIR, making me think they are similar? Maybe RAAT received more votes because it is a new Devialet feature, Roon has a fine reputation with software, Devialet do not, and we are all an optimistic bunch who tend to think the new sounds better than the old?

Anyway, it's all good fun to speculate, and for the record, I was using a Windows 10 PC when I tried the comparison.

[douglas]

Because of the overwhelming preference for RAAT, I decided to compare again, and once again there was an immediate preference for AIR.

In my system, it seems that certain frequencies in the mid-range are boosted via RAAT, which sound unnatural. AIR sounds more homogeneous top to bottom, and as mentioned before, timing is better.

The tonal balance of the system (Speakers) could have a major impact in terms of preference as @David A suggest.

As a side note, I want to experiment with SAM settings, as it seems bass is tighter with the new firmware.

[Pim]

Because of the overwhelming preference for RAAT, 

To be fair, RAAT only gets 40% leaving 60% for 'other'. Combined those 'others' either don't prefer RAAT, don't hear a difference or can't be bothered (which to me indicates there's not enough of a difference to bother with)

Make of it what you wish. I never thought I'd say this but i'm starting to become a 'bits are bits' person.... HELP!