microRendu - Sound Quality observations and comparisons

[Confused]

Some interesting comments. First to consider PhilP's point;

'I understand you're a PC-user and so perhaps can't easily try it but AIR 3 offers very significant SQ improvements over AIR 2 which, based on the observations you've made, should put it ahead of MR/iFi.'

Maybe, yes, but maybe not! For a while I have suspected that Windows AIR 2 sounds a lot better than Mac AIR 2. OK, I think those that have tried Mac AIR 3 have almost universally reported an improvement in SQ, to it would seam quite a respectable level. The thing is, I suspect that this simply puts Mac AIR 3 in the same ball park as Windows AIR 2. I have posted about this elsewhere, and indeed laid down a challenge for anyone with both a Mac and a PC to do a back to back test. Unfortunately, nobody had has actually tried this. So I have a different perspective, I think that finding that the mR, with iFi power, sounds similar to Windows AIR 2 is possibly just more evidence that Windows AIR 2 is already performing at reasonably high level. OK, all a bit evidence based and theoretical, indeed, it would be great if someone could put this to the test!

Then to Antoine's question;

'How many hours of playback do you have on it BTW? Many, including the designer, recommend letting it play for at least two days straight (around 50H) before critically evaluating it's performance. Whatever way one thinks about break/burn-in it won't hurt.'

A good question! I know that burn in is a little bit of a controversial subject, but I know many consider this a serious factor, and so I should have mentioned it in my write up for completeness. OK; I have had the mR over a week and during this time it has been left on and so has been warm for over 200 hours, but it certainly has NOT had 50 hours use, maybe nearer 10. Perhaps worth mentioning that it also has a brand new USB cable, an Audioquest Carbon. Then to the point about me effectively evaluating the USB input as much as the mR, I too suspect this could be the key factor behind the bass issue I noted, and this also ties in with my audition of the N1Z, and Aurender N10 via USB. For completeness, perhaps I should mention this is the first time I have enabled the USB on my Devialet at home, so for burn in fanatics, the USB input has probably only had 10 hours running time!

[octaviars]

I have tried the microRendu directly with USB to my D400 and with AES via a Mutec and to me the AES input is better so the USB input might not be the best way to get the most of your Devialets. After some time with my microRendu and Mutec I decided to sell them and wait for what will come in the future, the products are great but right now I want to se what is coming.

[PhilP]

Some interesting comments.  First to consider PhilP's point;

'I understand you're a PC-user and so perhaps can't easily try it but AIR 3 offers very significant SQ improvements over AIR 2 which, based on the observations you've made, should put it ahead of MR/iFi.'

Maybe, yes, but maybe not!  For a while I have suspected that Windows AIR 2 sounds a lot better than Mac AIR 2.   OK, I think those that have tried Mac AIR 3 have almost universally reported an improvement in SQ, to it would seam quite a respectable level.  The thing is, I suspect that this simply puts Mac AIR 3 in the same ball park as Windows AIR 2.  I have posted about this elsewhere, and indeed laid down a challenge for anyone with both a Mac and a PC to do a back to back test.  Unfortunately, nobody had has actually tried this.  So I have a different perspective, I think that finding that the mR, with iFi power, sounds similar to Windows AIR 2 is possibly just more evidence that Windows AIR 2 is already performing at reasonably high level.  OK, all a bit evidence based and theoretical, indeed, it would be great if someone could put this to the test!

Yes, you're right - it is surprising that no one seems to have done a straight comparison between AIR on OSX and Windows. 

I don't remember anyone else suggesting that Widows AIR sounds better than OSX AIR but it's certainly possible. I had always assumed that, if there was any difference, then AIR OSX would be better as that was the platform it was originally written for.  Then again the AIR 2 re-write was done so that it would run on both platforms - which is,apparently, where things started to go wrong...

I don't know many people with Windows PCs nowadays (everyone's moved to Apple - mainly iPads - and I got rid of mine several years ago) but I think my brother has one and will try to set up an AIR comparison for fun later in the summer.

[Confused]

OK, my last post regarding microRendu SQ finished as follows: 'If the Mutec could mitigate this very slight bass issue, then the mR pulls away or matches AIR in all areas.  It is a very specific issue though, I think the only way to find out would be to try one.  Of course the Mutec should in theory offer improvements in other areas, which together with a more appropriate PSU should be a combination that outperforms AIR comfortably. To be continued..... '

Well, the Mutec is set up and running.  I posted elsewhere about how hot the mR got when connected to the Mutec, this has been resolved nicely by a sophisticated cooling system I found in my garage.  This consists of a case with a flat steel base for maximum heat transfer, the case contains many cylinders of different diameters for maximum cooling properties, in addition the cylinders are each fluted to maximise heat transfer area.  The mR is trapped between the heat transfer box and the top of a steal cased Pioneer Blu-Ray player, this system is working well and I am now very happy with the mR temperatures.

For those that worry about burn in time, the Mutec has been plugged in an warm for days.  It has only been playing music for about 4 hours though.  Anyway, has it helped with the bass issue I mentioned before?  Short answer, yes, it appear that it has.  I have just run through about six tracks with which I had previously noticed the issue, and now the bass is laser sharp.  Not only has the slight fuzziness with the lowest bass gone, but things sound far more real, with things like kick drums having, well, kick and sounding like real drums.  All good!  Electronic stuff was laser sharp too, down to the subsonic transition.  To be honest, I'm slightly relieved!  I had been worrying a bit about spending more and more cash on un-auditioned kit, mR, then Mutec, PSU planned, would the end game just be disappointment?  Anyway, so far so good!  Next plan is to run through the tracks I used auditioning the Melco, Cad Cat, Aurender and dCS rig.  Also, my long suffering blind tester should be showing up in a couple of hours time, it was a bit of a struggle separating AIR and the mR last time, how will this one pan out?  It is perhaps worth mentioning that I did use the mR a lot last weekend, not 'critical listening', just playing music.  I have been enjoying the mR, there is something about it that is a very good listen, the bass issue remained, so I guess it was a case of mR preferred at 100Hz and above, AIR being the winner at the low end.  It does strike me that I found the same bass issue with the otherwise 'state of the art' N1Z, I am more convinced now than ever that this has nothing to do with the 'front end', but is a quirk of the Devialet's USB input.  I suspect it might be more apparent with the Blades than some speakers, the Blades do not have the most impressive figures for bass at -3dB on paper (40Hz), but the drop off is slow and with the opposed drivers, everything remains sharp and relatively undistorted.  Plus, in my room the bass 'humps' as you would expect, and drops to roughly the 0dB 'parity' level at 15Hz (per REW), and I can't hear 15Hz, being as I am human.  But there you have it, in my system, the bass issue is solved by the Mutec.  I think the issue was clear at the OAC streamer day too, when an Aurender N10 was demoed with USB then XLR, most of the room noted clearer bass via XLR, this was with Sasha II's.  Anyway, so far so good.   Now for more listening......

[Antoine]

Nice report Confused, enjoy!

My experience thus far in this 'finding the best source' game has been that the biggest -tonal- character changes have been in the bass department. With tonal character in this case I mean the apparent frequency response thing, so more/less bass/mids/treble etc. Of course there's lots of other areas's with different types of change as well of course (areas like apparent noise floor/'blacks', separation, soundstage, focus, etc. etc.) but I've gone from reproduction characters of being bass shy/thin, to overly bass heavy (this last one especially during the first hours of use of the PH PSU) and everything in between. This even while I'm using a very well respected active subwoofer (which I never touched in the proces).

It seems to be the hardest part to get/balance right with lots of trial and error involved. Quality of the power supplies seems to have a great effect here as well. A linear PSU for example resulted in a more powerful/dynamic bass compared to when I used my JCAT battery PSU which gave a more 'rounded', laid back, less exciting character.

Experiencing it yourself/experimenting, like you are doing now, is the best way to see what works and what doesn't and it also hugely helps to understand the experiences of others. Though they might not always be identical (we all differ, as do our systems) there is a 'leitmotiv' in many of it.

[Confused]

Much listening this afternoon, plus some back to back checks with Windows AIR, and a brief visit of my blind testing volunteer.

A very interesting afternoon, but I have to say all this back to back testing genuinely messes with your mind.  I have had to stop listening now because I think I am going quite mad!

Anyway, earlier I was listening to the tracks I had previously used for auditions of the Aurender, Melco, Cad Cat & indeed the mighty dCS rig.  What can I say?  I was really enjoying what I was hearing.  With reference back to my earlier auditions I thought the piano in the Bowie track that I loved on the N1Z, sounded as good as the N1Z, then the Bowie vocal on the same track that was elevated to magical heights by the Aurender W20 sounded just as good via microRendu + Mutec.  This was good!  Everything else sounded good too.  I did even find myself thinking just how good was that dCS rig?

It was only a brief run with my poor suffering blind tester.  This was interesting, as I too was listening back to back tracks with Windows AIR & mR Mutec, of course I knew which was which.  It is doing these A/B tests that really messes with your head, we only got through six tracks, and to be honest, that was enough.  (this did take best part of an hour though, listening to everything at least twice)  An interesting result though!  Blind, it was 4 to 2 in favour of the mR Mutec combo.  So not a slam dunk victory!  That does not quite tell the whole story though, for 3 of the 4 track that went in favour of the Mutec it was a case of a clear 'the second one was better' (or the other way 'round, playback method for 'first up' was selected at random).  Then there were 3 off tracks declared as  'I'm not sure this is hard', two of these went to AIR, one to mR Mutec.  So it did seem that when the mR Mutec was picked, it was by a clearer margin.  All very interesting though, and I think it shows how hard blind testing is, how phycology plays a big factor, and indeed it indicates just how good Windows AIR is.  (when AIR works, luckily it was flawless and stutter free today, massive stuttering would be a bit of a giveaway in a blind test)  As an example, there was one track where played via AIR the I thought the bass was much fuller and better.  I switched back to mR Mutec and came to a similar conclusion, but this time by only a tiny margin.  I think the bass sounded better on this track because it was less accurate, which kind of worked in this instance.  I then started googling 'phone numbers for lunatic asylums, I think I had had enough.  I think this shows how maybe focusing on one aspect of the music or sound can be misleading.  Frankly humans are not brilliant at evaluating these things.

When doing the back to backs, I did tend to prefer the mR Mutec combo, better details, more realistic, much sharper soundstage, but rapid A/B's do stop you getting too carried away.  I would absolutely love to get the mR and Mutec together with an Aurender and a Melco for decent A/B testing.  (or even the dCS)  I wonder what Windows AIR 3 will be like?  Maybe no better than AIR 2 SQ wise, but maybe miles better and I'm wasting my time and money here.

For me though, I have concluded that the mR / Mutec combo is a bit of a winner.  For whatever reasons, when I was just listening to stuff I fancied for fun, I was loving this rig, for me definitely the best I have heard at home.  Next step will be to stop evaluation mode and just live with this rig for a couple of weeks or more, I often come to slightly different conclusions given time and indeed a decent selection of listening material, it's surprising how many subtleties you pick up over a month's worth of listening with new kit.

Tomorrow I'll do some thinking about PSU's, if this mini rig can get better by ditching the iFi and getting cleaner power, then I'll be very happy indeed!

The best way I can sum this up is that I can say that I am really looking forward to some normal non evaluative listening with my mR Mutec fed rig, I think that says enough, I want more listening!

[Confused]

Oh yes, and my super sophisticated mR cooling system has stood up well, the mR has been on for maybe 9 hours straight today, and it's all just nicely warm. Plus another thing, reading Antoine's earlier post I need his PSU to immediately burn in and settle down, so he can give me some idea if the Paul Hynes is any good or not!

[Dr Tone]

I'm not sure if anyone has done an AIR 2 vs 3 on OSX? I guess windows could be different anyway. If Air 3 does end up being king of the hill for you it sure sucks you've had to spend $ trying other streaming solutions.  I don't want to point fingers or the Devialet love police will jump in.

[Confused]

For sure no one has done Windows AIR 2 vs AIR 3.     But then again, Windows AIR 3 beta comes out next week, so I was told.  Maybe, perhaps, soon at least .....

And also note my earlier comments re my suspicions that Windows AIR 2 sounds better than Mac AIR 2, but that one remains unconfirmed also, except for a comment from Rufus that he tried both and had a marginal preference for the Windows version.

Edit: It is also worth mentioning that the Mutec has been 100% stable since I've had it, not one stutter or glitch, even with 24bit material. Another thought is that the Mutec has definitely improved the SQ of the mR. So what could the Mutec do for other sources? I could feed it from my CD player, Blu-Ray player, even from my TV. I think this one a keeper! Of course Windows AIR 3 might end up being bullet proof stable, and the new Devialet steamer board the best sounding souse on the planet, time will tell. I'm pretty happy so far though!

[Hifi_swlon]

Which colour Mutec did you get Confused?