very noisy phono stage

[fettler269]

I recently purchased a 250 expert and am very pleased with the incredibly detailed sound and was initially very pleased with the phono stage which is just as detailed and a step up from many of the other stages I have used, bar 1.
I was listening last night to a relatively quiet album, (George Michael - Older), and cranked the volume up to around -10db and even through the music I could hear the hissing from both the tweeters and woofers. 
I've read that some units are noisier than others and I can only assume I must have one of the noisy ones.
My source is a Michell Gyrodec, SME IV tonearm and an AT 09xml Cart (MC).
I've played around with all of the voltages and loadings, but cannot get it to go away or even diminish.
My workaround is using a Parks Audio Waxwing phono stage, which sounds almost as good as the Dev (and is silent) but what I wanted, was to rid myself of all the boxes and cables.
I've been lucky enough to try a Belcanto Black EX (20k+) at home and their phono stage is dead silent.
I don't understand that if the phono signal is digitised, why can it not be made silent as per the cheap Waxwing and the expensive Belcanto?
If I decide to upgrade to the Pro CI spec, do they also upgrade the phono stage?

[chrisc]

Check that the RIAA curve is set correctly
Also match the output of the cartridge is reflected in the sensitivity of the phono stage

I know you have done this. Lastly, are the connections clean and in good order?

[docvale]

...
I don't understand that if the phono signal is digitised, why can it not be made silent as per the cheap Waxwing and the expensive Belcanto?
If I decide to upgrade to the Pro CI spec, do they also upgrade the phono stage?

please consider that the gain stage must be in the analog domain, hence hiss/noise is possible. I don't think the CI comes with upgraded phono and, considering the cost of the upgrade, you might look elsewhere anyway.
Personal experience with an inferior Devialet (Expert 120):
The phono stage is excellent in MM, but it suffers in MC. I tried it working on the input impedance for correct matching with my cart, yet the noise got annoying at nice listening volumes. Problem completely solved with a SUT between the MC cart and the phono in MM.

[frejo]

Your cart puts out 0.4 mV. That is probably too low for your Devialet. You will probably need around 1mV minimum.

[fettler269]

Sounds like it might be worth trying an SUT.
Which one did you go for?

[listener]

Yes, best with a SUT or high-output MC. There is no chance to get a reasonable soundfloor with a MC cartridge and any Devialet. As the analogue inputs are switchable between normal inputs and phono, the amplification is too low.
My cartridge is an Ortofon Quintet Black and I bought Lundahl MC transformers LL1681 (about 280,- a matched pair) together with a adapted PCB (50,-) and soldered it myself. Expect a sales price for the ready system in this quality with a brand logo on it for about 4-times the price.
Less costly are LL1678, best are 1941. You can get a ready board with them also here (they ship worldwide):
https://www.don-audio.com/Classi-1941-MC...former-Set

[Finn]

When i have Devialet 220 pro , i use a SUT , i have ortofon cadenza Black ,and after i Connect a SUT ,there was no noise any more.

[thumb5]

...
As the analogue inputs are switchable between normal inputs and phono, the amplification is too low.
...

Just to be clear, additional gain is applied when the inputs are configured for use with phono cartridges, along with equalisation (e.g. RIAA).  The amount of additional gain and the equalisation curve are configurable to suit the cartridge.

The problem is not that the amplification is too low -- if it were, it wouldn't be possible to get high enough output from the amplifier as a whole -- but rather that noise at the input of the amplifier and/or in the gain stage is inherently at too high a level with respect to the low output voltage of a moving-coil cartridge.

[frejo]

I have less noise now than I used to. I have changed cable to the Nordost + which allow you to connect some sort of extra shielding of the cable. Might be worth checking out?