Devialet Chat

(25-Jan-2016, 06:52)Rodney Gold Wrote: [ -> ].
I also use the -6db attenuation rather than -10
.

I wish they had the clipping warning on the OSX version (like the Windows apparently has), so you actually had an idea how much headroom there was.
Not that I need it as even on quiet classical I'm rarely into the -25 area on the Devialet (with -7db on Dirac), but I'd just like to know!

In terms of my Dirac experimentation, I've kind of narrowed it down to two curves now pretty much.

One is the default, which I think actually sounds most natural in all areas, but lacks a bit of bass - it reduces the peaks I have which is a lot more apparent than adding the very lowest bass.  That bass not being there feels totally 'wrong' to me, even if it's technically 'right'.  

My other curve keeps more bass by either (a) just humping the bass up, (b) trying to follow the peaks of my bass as-is, or © ignores anything below about 50Hz - all of which feels 'better' in terms of bass but can sometimes add a bit of 'boxiness' to the sound.

Each time I think I've found a 'one curve suits all' solution, I listen to something and the bass seems too weak or too strong.  Ideally I'd like one curve as I run it headless and don't want to fiddle. In any case, the fixing of the upper bass/lower mids is the real issue, and it does this so well I really struggle to listen without it now, as everything sounds very 'thin' with Dirac off.  

I've also noticed when I toggle on/off, depending on music I find it quite a shock in each direction - when enabling Dirac, the mids are sorted and its all in balance and not too bright or thin, but that extra treble and all the room effect going away can make the music feel a bit lifeless to start with (life equalling a load of extra stuff in this case).  Toggling the other way and turning Dirac off, the soundstage seems to go wider and more ambience, but less focussed an image, and feels pretty thin in vocals etc.

So there's some playing to be done yet - my system sounds the best its ever sounded, but its also not as simple as I'd like.

One thing that's still bothering me is a lack of  'bass slam'.  Growing up mainly with electronic music, clubs etc, nothing my hifi does right now feels right in the respect that I dont 'feel' the bass beats.   I dont mean like a subwoofer going through my stomach and shaking the house type feeling, but I'd like the beats to slam home. According to the measurements, I apparently have more bass than I should have, but nothing 'hits' me. I feel like I could crank the bass EQ up to +8 or more on the Devialet on top of this even.  And still need some more.

So what's going on I wonder?  Is it I'm just used to 'club speakers', or more domestic 'ported speakers', or is it the transmission line of the PMCs, or is it the fact that I sit with a lot of open space behind me in the room?  Whatever it is, surely if the measurements say bass is there, it should be 'right' at my seat regardless of room setup?  Maybe I actually need 'lower-fi' for that kind of music?

I hate to say it, but I did actually walk past the Phantom on demo in Harrods last week, and think, mmmm, now thats a beat I could dance to! It was filling the whole room too…..

(25-Jan-2016, 12:10)Hifi_swlon Wrote: [ -> ]One thing that's still bothering me is a lack of  'bass slam'.  Growing up mainly with electronic music, clubs etc, nothing my hifi does right now feels right in the respect that I dont 'feel' the bass beats.  

Phantom is perfect for dance music, you get that visceral bass that you feel just as much as you hear. Very much like a club actually.

I'm quite looking forward to getting a Phantom to use with Traktor, I reckon it would be heaps of fun! The perfect home DJing speaker? Now we're talking! 

Guillaume

Though I don't think you want to go down this path, you could always consider adding a subwoofer for that "slam"...

firstly , walk around your sitting position and see where bass is best , it could be that you are sitting in some null..and Dirac will not appreciably boost nulls.. it cant as a destructive null will just get deeper the more power you pour in.. best to move the listening position to get out of the null than moving speakers ..
You can place speakers nearer a wall too , to get boundary reinforcement

It requires some fiddling to get it right..the most common comment re low bass DRC is "where has my bass gone" .. you have to aclimate to what is "proper" bass...
if you want more of a "club" feel, What you can do is raise the 90-100 hz regioin by 2 db .. give it a bump and do the same at 60hz
Measurements with DIRAC are critical , especially the first one.
Bass is really only realistic if you have big woofers .. so if you do want extra , a sub or 2 might be the answer
I would go for a SVS sb2000 .. not hugely expensive and dirac will integrate it

(26-Jan-2016, 03:52)baddog Wrote: [ -> ]Though I don't think you want to go down this path, you could always consider adding a subwoofer for that "slam"...

I'm holding out as I'd like to avoid it, but not ruling it out....

(26-Jan-2016, 07:19)Rodney Gold Wrote: [ -> ]firstly , walk around your sitting position and see where bass is best , it could be that you are sitting in some null..and Dirac will not appreciably boost nulls.. it cant as a destructive null will just get deeper the more power you pour in.. best to move the listening position to get out of the null than moving speakers ..
You can place speakers nearer a wall too , to get boundary reinforcement

It requires some fiddling to get it right..the most common comment re low bass DRC is "where has my bass gone" .. you have to aclimate to what is "proper" bass...
if you want more of a "club" feel, What you can do is raise the 90-100 hz regioin by 2 db  .. give it a bump and do the same at 60hz
Measurements with DIRAC are critical , especially the first one.
Bass is really only realistic if you have big woofers .. so if you do want extra , a sub or 2 might be the answer
I would go for a SVS sb2000 .. not hugely expensive and dirac will integrate it

Bass seems fairly even to be honest. It's not a huge room and I sit relatively near the speakers with a lot of space behind me, but most places it sounds pretty much the same with bass and volume falling away a bit at the back.

I've been humping up the bass, I need to experiment more to get which bit I really need without throwing out the other aspects. I real-time EQ would definitely be useful here - even if it were just for tuning purposes.

I may look at subs but.....

Ok so my question is, if the bass seems to be there with measurements - a lot of my bass is being lowered by default with Dirac - how can it not be bassy enough? What I mean is, is there more to it than measurement - is it sound pressure or whatever that makes a difference or would lower sound pressure simply appear in a graph as less bass? I have to hump the bass up quite a bit above the default to even remotely get a good electronic beat.

That's why I started thinking if my speakers are measuring ok, especially after Dirac, but still not thumping enough - then maybe audiophile bass is 'wrong' in the sense that it sounds different to pretty much every average persons hifi, club, live gig, or whatever that I've heard throughout my life and in yoof particularly? Maybe most sound systems aren't 'proper' representations, so in a sense the norm is to be wrong?

My system is sounding the best it's sounded, and I think with a bit more tinkering it could be even better, but I sometimes wonder whether I've gone 'too hifi' and that things are a lot easier to sound 'right' on simpler systems perhaps. It dawned on me recently that I don't remember having so many thoughts about it before I started getting into high-end gear......

Interesting points. I agree that there is a period of time when I worried way too much about analyzing the sound of my system.

My suggestion is if you want more bass, then certainly adjust your curve and listen to the results. I would only recommend not trying to boost a null too much with room correction, cutting yes, boosting no.

After having DIRAC in my system for about 2 weeks now. I have concluded that the default target sounds best, most balanced.
I'd then bump my James Speaker Subs up a notch or two. I have listening to this and found that it's just about right with the option of tweaking the bass. I dialed the SAM back to 30%.

Rodney, about output volume, there are three places to control.
1. in the miniDSP export page, there's horizontal slider below the on/off toggle, I set to max.
2. in the DDRC utility panel, I set the master volume to max.
3. in the attenuation drop down, I set it to 6dB.
Question. Does the attenuation value ever change once it is set? If so ,when?

Thanks

Best is to use your Devialet to control volume
Once set , the attenuation in any slot is what you set it as
You can try -3db if you want , that assumes that DIRAC does not do more than a 3db boost.. however it might be doing 6db boost and can go into digital clipping .. so a -6db seems to be the safest option
Fiddle with the bass bump , at default curve I find the bass a little light .. most rooms will boost bass 3db per octave under 100hz.. the default curve is a little shy of this.

(01-Feb-2016, 06:38)Rodney Gold Wrote: [ -> ]Best is to use your Devialet to control volume
Once set , the attenuation in any slot is what you set it as
You can try -3db if you want , that assumes that DIRAC does not do more than a 3db boost.. however it might be doing 6db boost and can go into digital clipping .. so a -6db seems to be the safest option
Fiddle with the bass bump , at default curve I find the bass a little light .. most rooms will boost bass 3db per octave under 100hz.. the default curve is a little shy of this.

First of all: Thanks to all contributors to this thread for sharing your experiences and thoughts on Dirac! That encouraged me to test Dirac and actually I got rid of my nasty (very nasty!) standing waves! What a relief! The overall bass performance has improved significantly. As to now I restrict Dirac to frequencies below 200Hz, since I need some (i.e. a lot of) time for further listening - measuring - adjusting. Which seems to be quite a challenge given the fact that everything is affecting everything: Dirac <-> % of SAM <-> speaker positions <-> all other tweaks.

What I do not understand, however, is how to limit the attenuation. I do not find this feature in Dirac nor in the Devialet configurator. Do I understand something completely wrong? On the other hand: What does it mean to SQ if I listen to some music at +5db (which was the maximum so far, my listening room is in the basement)?