What would be the price for a Denali in U.K.? Seems like an interesting product how would it compare to an Isotek Aquarius or the AudioQuest 1000?
(04-Mar-2017, 16:21)Devialetuser Wrote: [ -> ]What would be the price for a Denali in U.K.? Seems like an interesting product how would it compare to an Isotek Aquarius or the AudioQuest 1000?
Just to say something about the Isotek Aquarius that was not a good match with my D400 so I sold it (had it from my homecinema days) and got a Ansuz Mainz 8D much better dynamics but this can be dependnt on my system so dont get the impression that Isotek is bad. I have really good quality mains so not much need for filtering.
The Shunyata Denali 6000/S sounds great in my system, and I chose it over the Audioquest for a few reasons. The Audioquest 7000:
1) has hum of its own, which seems silly for something meant to reduce noise.
2) uses active circuitry which apparently uses as much power as my D400. A power conditioner using as much power as two amps feels excessive.
3) costs about twice as much as the Shunyata 6000/S
4) reportedly has the edge with transients but falls behind the Shunyata with background noise floor, and my system is if anything too bright not too slow sounding
(04-Mar-2017, 16:21)Devialetuser Wrote: [ -> ]What would be the price for a Denali in U.K.? Seems like an interesting product how would it compare to an Isotek Aquarius or the AudioQuest 1000?
Preformance-wise I would expect the Denali to compare more with the AQ Niagara 7000 to be honest. I know Shunyata have compared them in-house (I saw the 7000 box when I was there) and thought the Denali was better but then you would expect them to say that.
Quite a bit of discussion here:
http://www.audioshark.org/power-conditio...10552.html
I haven't seen any measurements for either the Isotek and the AQ models, Shunyata are a bit more candid and happy to share these. See below for noise measurement highlighting noise isolation between outlets. To give you an idea a standard measurement is usually taken at 1 MHz. An exceptional measurement would be in range of -24 to -26dB at 1MHz. The Denali goes way beyond these numbers!
[
attachment=1856]
Guillaume
I never would have even considered 1MHz to be a frequency to worry about. Is that because of second/third and so on harmonics?
I wish they (all brands, but Shunyata particularly looking at the photos of the almost empty inside) would put these things in simpler, cheaper boxes, and make them more accessible.
I've no doubt they work in terms of filtering mains noise, but do they really need to be so expensive?
(06-Mar-2017, 10:34)Hifi_swlon Wrote: [ -> ]I wish they (all brands, but Shunyata particularly looking at the photos of the almost empty inside) would put these things in simpler, cheaper boxes, and make them more accessible.
I've no doubt they work in terms of filtering mains noise, but do they really need to be so expensive?
The cost of an aluminium box really doesn't add much to the manufacturing cost. I'm sure if they sold thousands of these things the price would come down considerably. Unfortunately we (hifi enthousiasts) live in a world of small sales numbers and diminishing returns. it's a fact of life we have to live with.
(06-Mar-2017, 10:41)Pim van Vliet Wrote: [ -> ] (06-Mar-2017, 10:34)Hifi_swlon Wrote: [ -> ]I wish they (all brands, but Shunyata particularly looking at the photos of the almost empty inside) would put these things in simpler, cheaper boxes, and make them more accessible.
I've no doubt they work in terms of filtering mains noise, but do they really need to be so expensive?
The cost of an aluminium box really doesn't add much to the manufacturing cost. I'm sure if they sold thousands of these things the price would come down considerably. Unfortunately we (hifi enthousiasts) live in a world of small sales numbers and diminishing returns. it's a fact of life we have to live with.
Some posts on CA, particularly discussions about the Sonore signature power supply, stated that one of the main costs of such units was custom casing. We know from the cost of an expert vs the internals cost that the case is a lot of wedge. For a box that sits on the floor with power cables, it just seems excessive.
I guess I'm just jealous. I'd really like to try one but £5k for a power filter just isn't justifiable.
Maybe I'll pick up one second hand when the next line come out. I've potentially got an isol-8 integra lined up to demo, but I'm sure that's in a different league.
(06-Mar-2017, 10:55)Hifi_swlon Wrote: [ -> ] (06-Mar-2017, 10:41)Pim van Vliet Wrote: [ -> ] (06-Mar-2017, 10:34)Hifi_swlon Wrote: [ -> ]I wish they (all brands, but Shunyata particularly looking at the photos of the almost empty inside) would put these things in simpler, cheaper boxes, and make them more accessible.
I've no doubt they work in terms of filtering mains noise, but do they really need to be so expensive?
The cost of an aluminium box really doesn't add much to the manufacturing cost. I'm sure if they sold thousands of these things the price would come down considerably. Unfortunately we (hifi enthousiasts) live in a world of small sales numbers and diminishing returns. it's a fact of life we have to live with.
Some posts on CA, particularly discussions about the Sonore signature power supply, stated that one of the main costs of such units was custom casing. We know from the cost of an expert vs the internals cost that the case is a lot of wedge. For a box that sits on the floor with power cables, it just seems excessive.
I guess I'm just jealous. I'd really like to try one but £5k for a power filter just isn't justifiable.
Maybe I'll pick up one second hand when the next lie come out. I've potentially got an isol-8 integra lined up to demo, but I'm sure that's in a different league.
The cost of the case might be the highest of all parts but that's only because electronics are extremely cheap. you're still only talking about a few hundred dollars at most for a fancy case. You're paying for the research, the advertising, the exclusivity and the CEO's new pool.
In one way Devialet could be a great help if (and that's a big IF) their saying "One day everyone will own a Devialet" comes through. All it takes is a renewed interest in High End audio and worldwide turnover goes up tenfold. All it takes is a spark (Absolutely no pun intended
)
(06-Mar-2017, 10:55)Hifi_swlon Wrote: [ -> ] (06-Mar-2017, 10:41)Pim van Vliet Wrote: [ -> ] (06-Mar-2017, 10:34)Hifi_swlon Wrote: [ -> ]I wish they (all brands, but Shunyata particularly looking at the photos of the almost empty inside) would put these things in simpler, cheaper boxes, and make them more accessible.
I've no doubt they work in terms of filtering mains noise, but do they really need to be so expensive?
The cost of an aluminium box really doesn't add much to the manufacturing cost. I'm sure if they sold thousands of these things the price would come down considerably. Unfortunately we (hifi enthousiasts) live in a world of small sales numbers and diminishing returns. it's a fact of life we have to live with.
Some posts on CA, particularly discussions about the Sonore signature power supply, stated that one of the main costs of such units was custom casing. We know from the cost of an expert vs the internals cost that the case is a lot of wedge. For a box that sits on the floor with power cables, it just seems excessive.
I guess I'm just jealous. I'd really like to try one but £5k for a power filter just isn't justifiable.
Maybe I'll pick up one second hand when the next lie come out. I've potentially got an isol-8 integra lined up to demo, but I'm sure that's in a different league.
It's actually more like £4k but I take your point.
A few points - Shunyata work on a BOM basis with their pricing. That is when they set their retail prices these are based on the costs of materials and production and not on what the market can take. The retail cost also includes the distributor and dealer margins, which in the case of Shunyata are considerably less than the competition or at least some of the bigger names out there. In my case (with importing to the UK) I need to pay VAT, duty and shipping which is higher than average due to their remote location on a island about 2 hours away from Seattle! So this all adds to the retail you see, hence why there is parity between dollar and pound. Let's not forget the pound is weak too!
Production runs are pretty small - Shunyata's turnover last year I believe was in the region of 8M USD, this is based on global sales. This is with staff of 25 or so, a fully equipped factory, warehouse, testing facilities etc. Shunyata uses its own trivial terminals and custom manufactured parts, has its own cable built to spec (as opposed to buying loom from wholesalers) and everything is tested properly over a period of days: for cosmetics, electrical continuity, electrical short, 2000 VAC HPOT test etc. In addition all cables and power conditioners are run in before delivery which adds to the time it takes to produce.
When I was there in October they showed me a ultrasonic welding machine they had just taken delivery of, the cost of which was in excess of 30k USD. There is a huge amount of testing equipment which doesn't come cheap.
The components inside the Denali are absolutely SOTA and derived from the research carried out in medical applications. A huge amount of time and effort have gone into producing (and patenting) these technologies, whether the new CCI filters or QR/BB. Just because they are small in terms of footprint doesn't mean they haven't been costly to develop.
Guillaume