Devialet Chat

I wasn't at the OAC event, but I would love to attend such a gathering. Thanks to the usual outstanding members who reported thoroughly and honestly about the event and the discussions.

Without being there, I cannot say anything relevant about what was said, except to go on what the others posted. Even so, one point that M. Pernot reportedly said does make sense to me; that the Expert Pro series is 'mature' and doesn't need much attention. Yes, I understand the frustrations about the iOS app, and other bugs relating to SAM or esoteric phono settings; all fair targets for criticism. Or that there is much capability in the CI board that is not being fully developed or exploited. On these points I'll accept the outrage of others.

But I too think the amplifier is mature, and stable. It does do the job that it is claimed to do. (try to separate the glorious expectation of rapid, regular, and amazing upgrades promised from the provided amplifier functions delivered). From this standpoint, focus on the Phantom is logical.

I don't understand the thirst for constant upgrades. Few manufactures promise it, which may be wise. Naim has always had a 'buy the next box up the chain' approach. That worked for the old school multi-box system, but they haven't been stellar problem solvers or software developers for their modern networked and streaming products. This I know, from personal experience. With almost any other brand, it would be a 'buy it and forget about it' experience.

Anyhow, what I meant to say is that I get the emphasis on the Phantom. I'm comfy with the Expert status, and I hope that they (Devialet) straighten up and fly right, by which I mean, keep their experienced staff, pay attention to their customers, and not let their advertising be run by persons who know elegant graphics more than elegant amplifiers. I want a long term corporate strategy that protects and serves the outstanding products they make and the relatively small customer base they have. Any hope of growing their company depends on it.

I think it is great that MP does these events at OAC and personally, I'm still very pleased with my Devialet. I'd sell everything else in my system before the amplifier.

Good evening. Now, bach to Bach violin concertos in Gm, D and concerto for violin and oboe in Cm.

(19-Jul-2019, 04:57)Damon Wrote: [ -> ]Even so, one point that M. Pernot reportedly said does make sense to me; that the Expert Pro series is 'mature' and doesn't need much attention. 

I tend to disagree. And that's not to say that I'm unhappy with my Od'A because I very much am. But if Devialet want to keep selling Experts they have to get at least the configurator working properly. Right now you can buy just about any $1000.- integrated and it lets you program the inputs you want to use and cancel the others. If I were looking for an amp now, and the Expert felt like the half finished product that it is, I wouldn't be too comfortable that Devialet are on top of their software. As Mr. Pernot has stated is the case right now. 

At least with the old Expert you bought a product that could do certain things and not others. Now you buy a product that promises to do the world but nothing is finished. That's not a great business model if you ask me. They should have either left it as it was and not put the Pro out until it was fully developed or they should keep developing it to it's full potential.

(19-Jul-2019, 04:57)Damon Wrote: [ -> ]…
I don't understand the thirst for constant upgrades. Few manufactures promise it, which may be wise.
…

I don't think there's a thirst for constant upgrades. I think there's a thirst for upgrades which deliver what Devialet have promised and which work as they should. Devialet released the Expert Pro range over 3 years ago with the promise of a hardware upgrade and added functionality. They've delivered the hardware upgrade but there are still loose ends when it comes to delivering the software to provide all of the promised functionality. Now they've released the Reactor range without all of the functionality they're promising for it and with promises of upgrades to deliver additional features.

I think most people would be satisfied if they simply had everything they had been promised with their product and it was all working the way it should work. Devialet expect you to pay for your products when you buy them. If customers do that for Devialet, then Devialet should be delivering products which do what they say the product is intended to do and the customer shouldn't be left waiting for some things to be delivered over 3 years down the track because it's over 3 years now since the Expert Pro range was released and while we've got the hardware upgrade we still don't have all of the promised functionality and some of the functionality we've got doesn't work as it should for some people.

It's not unreasonable to ask for what was promised, to hope to get it in a timely manner and 3 years for Expert Pro owners isn't timely, and it's not unreasonable to expect that it will work the way it should. We don't want constant upgrades, we just want an upgrade that delivers everything that is still outstanding in the promises. 

And one thing I don't want to see, even though I don't own a Reactor, is for Reactor owners to be in the same situation I'm in over 3 years after I bought my Expert Pro still waiting on updates to deliver the things still outstanding and fix the things that aren't working quite right.

(19-Jul-2019, 09:15)alaw Wrote: [ -> ]You should always buy something for what it does today, not what's promised, and failing to deliver on promised features is not a problem unique to Devialet. I'm happy that I don't have any issues, because this stuff is too expensive to be happy with it.

Everything they tell you about what it does today is a promise, a promise that you'll get what they're saying it does. The guarantee it comes with is a promise that it will work as specified for so many years and that they will repair it if it fails during that period.

If there were no promises involved with those things they could give you a product which didn't deliver the performance it was specified to deliver, couldn't perform the functions that they say it can perform, could fail to work for the promised period, and laugh in your face when you took it back and said it doesn't do what you said it would do. Would you really buy a product that came without any promises at all? Be serious now.

A c company has just as much obligation to deliver on promises that it's saying it will deliver to you in the future as it has to deliver on the promises it's saying are being delivered on the item you're getting in your hands when you pay your money. If they're promising something in the future as part of what you're getting for your money then delivering on that promise forms part of the contract of sale you enter into when you pay your money.

I don't completely agree with the suggestion that a system is always bought for what it does now, as when I bought my Expert Pro I did so with the new Core Infinity streaming card as part of the package, when it was ready. That was in December 2016. The streaming card was installed the following year but it was only in February 2019 that the operating system and firmware became, in my experience, flawless.

We were promised a new app and then a universal app including Expert. We are now told that there is a universal app in the pipeline, but initially it will not operate Expert. Will it ever? I was also sold on having native Qobuz, which was promised from September 2016, and it now appears may never happen.

I'm sure I could think of or two other things to complain about, but it is all irrelevant because I've never had any problems playing music into my system, whether with an external streamer, upnp player or plain old usb. Ever since Qobuz became integrated into Roon, all problems have been solved. If I wanted an integrated Devialet controller, it would probably be almost identical to the Roon app, which I have, so I really do not need Devialet to do their own app anymore.

Mathieu did say that the reason why they have not been able to resolve some people's network issues is because they have not been able to replicate the problem. It is therefore very difficult to know what more they can do. I have operated my system using ethernet, fibre-optic, wireless, and Air, without any problems.

As several people have said, what really matters is the sound, which is superb, not least the phono stage. I too will be getting back to listening to some Bach as soon as I can.

Thanks to Ian for writing up the questions and answers, to Mathieu and Alex for being there and especially to Jon and the team for hosting and looking after us.

It was the first time I've met people from Devialet and it was a worthwhile visit. The responses above give a good view of all the topics covered and the additions from people's side chats with the guys. A few observations that stood out for me were
- The company has grown and also changed over the years. The work on the Expert range provided a successful, new approach to delivering high quality sound in a quality and lifestyle product. They were then able to use this to trickle down to lower priced but much higher volume products, enabling more people to get good sound at good value.
- The product strategy and prioritisation is dynamic and and people get moved around in bulk accordingly. As Ian notes the Reactor prep, launch and support has been their signficant focus for the best part of a year to the exclusion of other enhancement work. Also increasing work on partneships like the Sky deal.
- They have acknowledged their customer support challenges and put real effort and people into this to help customers get the best from their kit. Networking issues form the majority of the issues arising and so they want to balance providing better app/web configurability without introducing more complexity and tech issues.
- Mathieu has been at the heart of the Expert design for many years and remains commited to it being their flagship that is progressed... but there are many competing requests for resources alongside massive retention challenges to find and keep the engineers they need.
- Good phono for the Expert is a priority (and Mathieu's preferred source!) and it should be working well for all. Clear and great message that any and all issues around this should be submitted to him for investigation and resoultion - hopefully that will help several here.
- Devialet are keen to understand what users would like to see so do provide them feedback. I think the platforms provides huge potential for areas like room correction which could be a very sellable benefit on each of the platforms.
- The Expert platform was good at the start and has been improved over time... however the previous approach of announcing and providing regular firmware and feature updates has resulted in an established platform with no need or plan for regular changes. I got the impression that further improvements should not be expected in date or scope, but will arrive occasionally and be based on alignment to the overall platforms and the top requests from users.
- Style and lack of communication was raised several times. I think this with the point above gets to the heart of some of the challenges many have had here. Depending on when you bought into Devialet the company, and on which product, they provided a view and emails of an evolving platform with trailled and committed enhancements. This was not committed into the company's roadmap and they changed priorities over time. I think they saw these as potential futures rather than absolutes, but the subsequent failure to deliver led to disappointment for several.

Devialet do appreciate the support that they receive now and over the years from all the people here, though I think the expectations for evolution don't align to the company's approach to create further new products and grow their market rather than enhance the current set. They have evolved some products much more than other companies and many here appreciate that.

As many have said the products sound brilliant and work well, which is a good place to be for us in the audio world! Future improvements should be a bonus rather than an expectation when they arrive and whenever that is. It was mentioned that there have been some dealers who've set client expectations beyond the current platform... Perhaps this is one area where Devialet could provide wording for their use around platforms to avoid this.

I do think the commitment to making the Expert platform and support superb for all is a key outcome - and so we should all be contacting Devialet and Mathieu directly about any problems to make it work for us all.

Here's to next year!

Jonathan

Only we Can say , it is all about Money , expert Line is great , but Then Don,t make Money , Reactor Sell and sell , mabye there come nye updates too expert Line , but be Shure there vill come too reactor, they sell a lot ,and Money always roule the World. Devialet say they Will make nye app to expert Line , but before that they Will give too Reactor . That is the Way things go , expert Line Don,t sell so much.

I have sympathy with much of what has been said - and thanks to those who gave detailed reports and especially Mr Thumb for the pre-prepared questions which did at least produce written answers from Devialet albeit generally negative and otherwise light on detail.

I am almost entirely happy with my 1000Pro (OdA) - I still think it is way better than any alternatives - and my disappointment has been the promising, the unbelievable overpromising, the underdelivering and the lack of communication. Not the way to run a business.

When Sannie exited and the new CEO arrived, there was the opportunity to say that the Expert was approaching maturity and to define the truncated roadmap and do at least one communication. Instead we got the Joachim presentation at Munich which tempered the promises slightly and promised communication. Now we have neither and, I suspect, Mathieu and Alexandre were told to say as little as possible, hence the silence early on in the presentation when everyone expected Devialet to lead with the pre-prepared questions and answers.

So that event was a bit of a washout in terms of the presentations - Mathieu is much happier and open in one to one conversations which almost makes me think that he is issued with instructions before leaving Paris. 

Even the presentation positive bits - that Mathieu himself gets involved on all technical tickets and that if you really want SAM for an unSAMmed speaker they will do it for you at home (I think) - were downplayed.

And nothing on other stuff they are doing outside the convention hifi arena. Just a bit on Reactor which was the questionable reason for everything else not happening.

I expect the new CEO is being told by investors to turn this into a cash-generative business following Sannie spending lots and delivering little. One never hears of Calmel being mentioned at all.

Luckily we have a great product - but in terms of the expectations that Devialetchat members have, I suspect we may as well forget it. I just hope that Mathieu stays with Devialet as I think he is a good guy who may have suffered from moving from the support of a technical boss to the imposition of different demands from a finance guy.

Thanks to Jon and OAC for what is still a welcome event.

Excellent post, Ian. Your summary is right on the nose, I think.

+1


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