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+--- Thread: USB Regen from UpTone (/Thread-USB-Regen-from-UpTone)
RE: USB Regen from UpTone - mauidan - 09-Sep-2015
(09-Sep-2015, 02:58)baddog Wrote: True story - I try to keep a minimal setup wherever possible - so I have been using the Regen for quite a few months now and with the Devialet 400s for a few weeks. I pulled it out the other day, and a day later I had to put it back in. As much as I wanted to get it out of the system ( reduce clutter ) I have found it does in fact make a difference ( to my ears ).
Had the same experience with a Silver Circle Audio Pure Power, for a night when A/B testing sounded the same with it in and out of the system. So much so I pulled it out and boxed it up for sale. Day later, argh! Sound was not the same, so back in it went.
I haven't tried the Regen, because I'm doubtful it will make an improvement on the SOtM USB audio card in my Auraliti
PK90 and the solid adapter isn't Devialet friendly.
IMO, AC conditioner improvements depend on the quality of power coming out of your wall socket and internal wiring.
I sold my Silver Circle Audio 5.0SE and don't miss it and after trying a PS Audio P5, that's for sale. Same thing goes for the Entreq Silver Tellus.
RE: USB Regen from UpTone - baddog - 09-Sep-2015
@mauidan - I agree with you assessment of when a power conditioner might be warranted. I don't have dedicated lines, so perhaps that would eliminate the need for the Silver Circle Audio. As it is I have my computer, Regen, and Devialets plugged into the Silver Circle.
So to ensure I am reading your post properly, you have found no need for the Silver Circle, PS Audio P5 nor Entreq, and plug straight into the wall?
Thanks.
RE: USB Regen from UpTone - mauidan - 09-Sep-2015
(09-Sep-2015, 04:21)baddog Wrote: @mauidan - I agree with you assessment of when a power conditioner might be warranted. I don't have dedicated lines, so perhaps that would eliminate the need for the Silver Circle Audio. As it is I have my computer, Regen, and Devialets plugged into the Silver Circle.
So to ensure I am reading your post properly, you have found no need for the Silver Circle, PS Audio P5 nor Entreq, and plug straight into the wall?
Thanks.
Yes, the Silver Circle, PS Audio P5 and Entreq didn't do anything postive.
I have dedicated 20 amp lines in my listening room with Furutech GTX outlets.
If the PI audio group unit I'm currently testing doesn't work out, I'll redo my power cords and go straight to the wall.
RE: USB Regen from UpTone - ogs - 09-Sep-2015
(08-Sep-2015, 12:23)Axel Wrote: I'm a regular reader of Mark Waldrep's blog. Here is his take on the Regen:
http://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=5150
Makes interesting reading!
Interesting indeed! Thanks for the link Axel
One good thing to say about Waldrep; he is honest. Other than that it's pure BS. Embarrassing for him and his studio that he can not hear a difference. Or maybe his equipment is 'perfect' so the Regen does not make a difference? Or the A/B box he uses masks any differences there might be..
RE: USB Regen from UpTone - NickB - 09-Sep-2015
(09-Sep-2015, 11:21)ogs Wrote:(08-Sep-2015, 12:23)Axel Wrote: I'm a regular reader of Mark Waldrep's blog. Here is his take on the Regen:
http://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=5150
Makes interesting reading!
Interesting indeed! Thanks for the link Axel
One good thing to say about Waldrep; he is honest. Other than that it's pure BS. Embarrassing for him and his studio that he can not hear a difference. Or maybe his equipment is 'perfect' so the Regen does not make a difference? Or the A/B box he uses masks any differences there might be..
I think if you read the report correctly then they tested the a/b box without the Regen in circuit first to check whether there was any perceived difference between the 2 circuits and after finding none only then connected the Regen in circuit. If the difference the regen makes can be masked by a switch then it isn't exactly startling is it.
I am not sure why the people who purvey highly expensive answers to the terrible effects that USB and Network systems cause to the very low bitrate of an Audio signal are unable to sell the same equipment to people sending gigabytes of data to aid with the terrible losses and errors that they must also be getting.
RE: USB Regen from UpTone - Rufus McDufus - 09-Sep-2015
Bits aren't getting lost. This is addressing the issues at the physical layer.
RE: USB Regen from UpTone - ogs - 09-Sep-2015
(09-Sep-2015, 12:25)NickB Wrote:(09-Sep-2015, 11:21)ogs Wrote:(08-Sep-2015, 12:23)Axel Wrote: I'm a regular reader of Mark Waldrep's blog. Here is his take on the Regen:
http://www.realhd-audio.com/?p=5150
Makes interesting reading!
Interesting indeed! Thanks for the link Axel
One good thing to say about Waldrep; he is honest. Other than that it's pure BS. Embarrassing for him and his studio that he can not hear a difference. Or maybe his equipment is 'perfect' so the Regen does not make a difference? Or the A/B box he uses masks any differences there might be..
I think if you read the report correctly then they tested the a/b box without the Regen in circuit first to check whether there was any perceived difference between the 2 circuits and after finding none only then connected the Regen in circuit. If the difference the regen makes can be masked by a switch then it isn't exactly startling is it.
I am not sure why the people who purvey highly expensive answers to the terrible effects that USB and Network systems cause to the very low bitrate of an Audio signal are unable to sell the same equipment to people sending gigabytes of data to aid with the terrible losses and errors that they must also be getting.
I believe I did read Waldrep's report. Have you had a chance to try a Regen in your own system?
RE: USB Regen from UpTone - Hifi_swlon - 09-Sep-2015
(09-Sep-2015, 12:25)NickB Wrote: I am not sure why the people who purvey highly expensive answers to the terrible effects that USB and Network systems cause to the very low bitrate of an Audio signal are unable to sell the same equipment to people sending gigabytes of data to aid with the terrible losses and errors that they must also be getting.
I haven't even received mine yet, but did a lot of reading around the subject before ordering.
From everything I've read over at CA and other forums (and even in their notes to Waldrep posted above), Uptone categorically state that the REGEN does not fix any signal losses or errors, because they simply aren't there.
From what I understand the role of the REGEN is solely to better the Signal Integrity into the DACs USB input, and that by doing so it lowers the noise generated within the input itself - this noise apparently caused by the extra processing the receiver has to do to decipher the 'unclean' signal. It is this internally generated noise, they argue, that is often passed through to the DAC circuits regardless of things like galvanic isolation, and this is one of the things that we humans pick up on when we listen. They also state that with a better source (i.e. if it already has a USB output with good SI), and a better designed DAC, the REGEN will make less of a difference.
So it could perhaps be they've actually found a solution to a weakness in USB audio data transmission that wasn't really known about until recently, or it could be total BS. But audiophiles are a tricky bunch to please and there don't seem to be too many complaints over at CA.
To me, ordering one to try seemed like a no brainier (I use a Mac Mini source). I have to say I think Uptone are pretty open about the science behind it and also engage with their customers quite well. It's also $175, which is a fraction of the price of some USB cables that get mentioned frequently here. Surely not highly expensive to any Devialet owner?
Will report my findings (imagined or otherwise) when mine arrives - hopefully this month….
A link to the designer's notes on how the REGEN works and the SI subject are here: http://uptoneaudio.com/pages/j-swenson-tech-corner
RE: USB Regen from UpTone - AllenB - 09-Sep-2015
Well, as someone who does now use a Regen, I can categorically say that it reduces noise and hash on the USB path, which is why I believe that even on an expensive USB cable, the effect is still noticed, as it is passing the noise along together with the actual data.
The ironic thing was that I was just about getting AIR ethernet to be pretty stable, along comes the Regen and AIR does not matter that much to me now. What I cannot work out is why USB with Regen on the Dev sounds tangibly better than AIR, the noise generated by the computer source with AIR should, in theory, be isolated from the DAC in the Dev. Isn't that the point of AIR?
RE: USB Regen from UpTone - Hifi_swlon - 09-Sep-2015
(09-Sep-2015, 13:34)AllenB Wrote: Well, as someone who does now use a Regen, I can categorically say that it reduces noise and hash on the USB path, which is why I believe that even on an expensive USB cable, the effect is still noticed, as it is passing the noise along together with the actual data.
The ironic thing was that I was just about getting AIR ethernet to be pretty stable, along comes the Regen and AIR does not matter that much to me now. What I cannot work out is why USB with Regen on the Dev sounds tangibly better than AIR, the noise generated by the computer source with AIR should, in theory, be isolated from the DAC in the Dev. Isn't that the point of AIR?
I believe from reading around the REGEN that pretty much all Ethernet inputs have the same/similar PHY chip of USB inputs, so perhaps noise is generated there also, and perhaps if using wifi, the Dev still has to devote CPU to the task. I certainly don't claim to know, just thinking aloud.
Previously I'd thought of selling my D200 after my AIr issues - its totally unusable and beyond irritating in my setup. Regardless of SQ I'm so much happier with USB simply because it sounds OK and the music just keeps on playing. But within reason I'll try and improve the USB input as much as I can….