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+--- Thread: Ex dem 130 pro (/Thread-Ex-dem-130-pro)
RE: Ex dem 130 pro - Moonsim70 - 08-Jun-2018
Well I sent the 130 pro back paid the extra for the 220pro only to find out the unit was a 120 upgrade when I was told not!. The box also contained 2 cards one was a sandisk card with a config from 2016!!!
RE: Ex dem 130 pro - cereal killer - 08-Jun-2018
Thats poor form!! - which retailer are you dealing with?
RE: Ex dem 130 pro - Jean-Marie - 08-Jun-2018
There is absolutely no difference between an 120 upgraded into a 220 pro and a 220 pro.
As part of the upgrade is the replacement of the electronics with the 220 pro electronics.
So whether it is a 220 pro, a 200 upgraded into a 220 pro or a 120 upgraded into a 220 pro it makes absolutely zero difference.
Jean-Marie
RE: Ex dem 130 pro - Moonsim70 - 08-Jun-2018
HI cereal its stone audio. What I’m annoyed about is i asked the dealer if their units were upgraded units and i was told no they are new factory sealed. To me if an amplifier or any product is sent back for upgrades or modifications its reworked. I know Devialet were offering upgrades on ifc but this fine if you own the unit. The unit i have has small marks on the top surface too, I don’t expect this after spending large sums of money. I also cant register the unit as the serial number is not valid and why was there a Sandisk card also in the box containing a config file from 2106!!.
RE: Ex dem 130 pro - Axel - 09-Jun-2018
It sounds like this unit is second hand and:
1. They’ve mistakenly given you the wrong box/amp.
2. You’ve caught them out and they are trying it on.
Either way, you are entitled to get what you paid for, i.e. a new amp. If they told you that it was a factory sealed unit, then that’s what you should have. Do you have a receipt that says it’s a new unit? If they’ve charged you full price, it should be. Try the soft approach first, and if they argue, tell them that you’ll take them to the Small Claims Court if they don’t give you a brand new sealed unit.
RE: Ex dem 130 pro - Confused - 09-Jun-2018
(08-Jun-2018, 21:14)Jean-Marie Wrote: There is absolutely no difference between an 120 upgraded into a 220 pro and a 220 pro.
As part of the upgrade is the replacement of the electronics with the 220 pro electronics.
So whether it is a 220 pro, a 200 upgraded into a 220 pro or a 120 upgraded into a 220 pro it makes absolutely zero difference.
Jean-Marie
I can not agree with this. From a technical perspective, what you say is accurate, the electronics inside would be identical, and I guess they should sound identical. But there is a difference. As an example, when I had a D800, I chose to buy a new 1000Pro, rather than upgrade my D800 to a 1000Pro. I liked the idea of having a 'brand new factory sealed' unit, together with a nice new remote control, rather than an upgraded unit, something built in one hit in the factory, not taken to bits, replacement screws, replacement heat transfer material and all the rest of it. Plus the case is new, with new chrome plate, which itself does not have an infinite lifespan. It is somehow much nicer. Indeed, the cost of doing this was higher than the cost to upgrade. So although I know it makes absolutely zero difference to the electronics, I was prepared to pay more cash for the new units. Which is the point, a dealer knows that a new unit can be sold for more cash than an upgraded unit. So this is a misrepresentation of the good to increase profit. I recall looking at the website of another UK dealer recently, they were selling a D800 and the advert clearly stated that the units were upgraded D-Premiers, they were also a very good price. These two points are related.
I would put this another way, if someone from a dealer came to my house, removed my D1000 that I bought brand new and replaced them with a D1000 upgraded from a two year older D800, I would probably do that same said dealer some physical damage. I would not be happy.
EDIT. I am not sure if I have interpreted this 100% correctly, but a 'brand new factory sealed' unit is exactly that, new, to be sold at retail price, or something close to retail with a discount. A 120 upgraded to a 220Pro is a second-hand unit, which should be substantially cheaper. So zero difference to the electronics, we can agree. But a substantial difference in terms of a fair selling price.
RE: Ex dem 130 pro - Jean-Marie - 09-Jun-2018
(09-Jun-2018, 07:35)Yes Confused Wrote:I have not seen in the post whether it was sold as new or second hand or demo.(08-Jun-2018, 21:14)Jean-Marie Wrote: There is absolutely no difference between an 120 upgraded into a 220 pro and a 220 pro.
As part of the upgrade is the replacement of the electronics with the 220 pro electronics.
So whether it is a 220 pro, a 200 upgraded into a 220 pro or a 120 upgraded into a 220 pro it makes absolutely zero difference.
Jean-Marie
I can not agree with this. From a technical perspective, what you say is accurate, the electronics inside would be identical, and I guess they should sound identical. But there is a difference. As an example, when I had a D800, I chose to buy a new 1000Pro, rather than upgrade my D800 to a 1000Pro. I liked the idea of having a 'brand new factory sealed' unit, together with a nice new remote control, rather than an upgraded unit, something built in one hit in the factory, not taken to bits, replacement screws, replacement heat transfer material and all the rest of it. Plus the case is new, with new chrome plate, which itself does not have an infinite lifespan. It is somehow much nicer. Indeed, the cost of doing this was higher than the cost to upgrade. So although I know it makes absolutely zero difference to the electronics, I was prepared to pay more cash for the new units. Which is the point, a dealer knows that a new unit can be sold for more cash than an upgraded unit. So this is a misrepresentation of the good to increase profit. I recall looking at the website of another UK dealer recently, they were selling a D800 and the advert clearly stated that the units were upgraded D-Premiers, they were also a very good price. These two points are related.
I would put this another way, if someone from a dealer came to my house, removed my D1000 that I bought brand new and replaced them with a D1000 upgraded from a two year older D800, I would probably do that same said dealer some physical damage. I would not be happy.
EDIT. I am not sure if I have interpreted this 100% correctly, but a 'brand new factory sealed' unit is exactly that, new, to be sold at retail price, or something close to retail with a discount. A 120 upgraded to a 220Pro is a second-hand unit, which should be substantially cheaper. So zero difference to the electronics, we can agree. But a substantial difference in terms of a fair selling price.
I made the assumption that the dealer would not present a second hand unit as a new one.
My point was that the only difference between a updated unit or a ‘native’ is the case which is reused after repolishing in the case of the upgrade. All the rest is 100% new and to my knowledge following the exact same process in the factory.
In my case, my upgraded D220 pro came back sealed and I would be unable to tell it apart a brand new one.
RE: Ex dem 130 pro - Greg - 09-Jun-2018
(09-Jun-2018, 10:36)Jean-Marie Wrote:+1. My experience exactly on a previously owned 220 and my new (previously owned) 250. However, I would not accept an upgraded item that was being sold as a brand new one. Of course, the term factory sealed is misleading. Both brand new and upgraded amps both come from Devialet ‘factory sealed’.(09-Jun-2018, 07:35)Yes Confused Wrote:I have not seen in the post whether it was sold as new or second hand or demo.(08-Jun-2018, 21:14)Jean-Marie Wrote: There is absolutely no difference between an 120 upgraded into a 220 pro and a 220 pro.
As part of the upgrade is the replacement of the electronics with the 220 pro electronics.
So whether it is a 220 pro, a 200 upgraded into a 220 pro or a 120 upgraded into a 220 pro it makes absolutely zero difference.
Jean-Marie
I can not agree with this. From a technical perspective, what you say is accurate, the electronics inside would be identical, and I guess they should sound identical. But there is a difference. As an example, when I had a D800, I chose to buy a new 1000Pro, rather than upgrade my D800 to a 1000Pro. I liked the idea of having a 'brand new factory sealed' unit, together with a nice new remote control, rather than an upgraded unit, something built in one hit in the factory, not taken to bits, replacement screws, replacement heat transfer material and all the rest of it. Plus the case is new, with new chrome plate, which itself does not have an infinite lifespan. It is somehow much nicer. Indeed, the cost of doing this was higher than the cost to upgrade. So although I know it makes absolutely zero difference to the electronics, I was prepared to pay more cash for the new units. Which is the point, a dealer knows that a new unit can be sold for more cash than an upgraded unit. So this is a misrepresentation of the good to increase profit. I recall looking at the website of another UK dealer recently, they were selling a D800 and the advert clearly stated that the units were upgraded D-Premiers, they were also a very good price. These two points are related.
I would put this another way, if someone from a dealer came to my house, removed my D1000 that I bought brand new and replaced them with a D1000 upgraded from a two year older D800, I would probably do that same said dealer some physical damage. I would not be happy.
EDIT. I am not sure if I have interpreted this 100% correctly, but a 'brand new factory sealed' unit is exactly that, new, to be sold at retail price, or something close to retail with a discount. A 120 upgraded to a 220Pro is a second-hand unit, which should be substantially cheaper. So zero difference to the electronics, we can agree. But a substantial difference in terms of a fair selling price.
I made the assumption that the dealer would not present a second hand unit as a new one.
My point was that the only difference between a updated unit or a ‘native’ is the case which is reused after repolishing in the case of the upgrade. All the rest is 100% new and to my knowledge following the exact same process in the factory.
In my case, my upgraded D220 pro came back sealed and I would be unable to tell it apart a brand new one.
Ex dem 130 pro - PeppaPig - 09-Jun-2018
(09-Jun-2018, 07:35)Confused Wrote:(08-Jun-2018, 21:14)Jean-Marie Wrote: There is absolutely no difference between an 120 upgraded into a 220 pro and a 220 pro.
As part of the upgrade is the replacement of the electronics with the 220 pro electronics.
So whether it is a 220 pro, a 200 upgraded into a 220 pro or a 120 upgraded into a 220 pro it makes absolutely zero difference.
Jean-Marie
I can not agree with this. From a technical perspective, what you say is accurate, the electronics inside would be identical, and I guess they should sound identical. But there is a difference. As an example, when I had a D800, I chose to buy a new 1000Pro, rather than upgrade my D800 to a 1000Pro. I liked the idea of having a 'brand new factory sealed' unit, together with a nice new remote control, rather than an upgraded unit, something built in one hit in the factory, not taken to bits, replacement screws, replacement heat transfer material and all the rest of it. Plus the case is new, with new chrome plate, which itself does not have an infinite lifespan. It is somehow much nicer. Indeed, the cost of doing this was higher than the cost to upgrade. So although I know it makes absolutely zero difference to the electronics, I was prepared to pay more cash for the new units. Which is the point, a dealer knows that a new unit can be sold for more cash than an upgraded unit. So this is a misrepresentation of the good to increase profit. I recall looking at the website of another UK dealer recently, they were selling a D800 and the advert clearly stated that the units were upgraded D-Premiers, they were also a very good price. These two points are related.
I would put this another way, if someone from a dealer came to my house, removed my D1000 that I bought brand new and replaced them with a D1000 upgraded from a two year older D800, I would probably do that same said dealer some physical damage. I would not be happy.
EDIT. I am not sure if I have interpreted this 100% correctly, but a 'brand new factory sealed' unit is exactly that, new, to be sold at retail price, or something close to retail with a discount. A 120 upgraded to a 220Pro is a second-hand unit, which should be substantially cheaper. So zero difference to the electronics, we can agree. But a substantial difference in terms of a fair selling price.
I agree, brand new is brand new. Upgraded is upgraded. The casing isn’t in the same condition.
RE: Ex dem 130 pro - Zappydev - 09-Jun-2018
(09-Jun-2018, 14:08)PeppaPig Wrote:(09-Jun-2018, 07:35)Confused Wrote:(08-Jun-2018, 21:14)Jean-Marie Wrote: There is absolutely no difference between an 120 upgraded into a 220 pro and a 220 pro.
As part of the upgrade is the replacement of the electronics with the 220 pro electronics.
So whether it is a 220 pro, a 200 upgraded into a 220 pro or a 120 upgraded into a 220 pro it makes absolutely zero difference.
Jean-Marie
I can not agree with this. From a technical perspective, what you say is accurate, the electronics inside would be identical, and I guess they should sound identical. But there is a difference. As an example, when I had a D800, I chose to buy a new 1000Pro, rather than upgrade my D800 to a 1000Pro. I liked the idea of having a 'brand new factory sealed' unit, together with a nice new remote control, rather than an upgraded unit, something built in one hit in the factory, not taken to bits, replacement screws, replacement heat transfer material and all the rest of it. Plus the case is new, with new chrome plate, which itself does not have an infinite lifespan. It is somehow much nicer. Indeed, the cost of doing this was higher than the cost to upgrade. So although I know it makes absolutely zero difference to the electronics, I was prepared to pay more cash for the new units. Which is the point, a dealer knows that a new unit can be sold for more cash than an upgraded unit. So this is a misrepresentation of the good to increase profit. I recall looking at the website of another UK dealer recently, they were selling a D800 and the advert clearly stated that the units were upgraded D-Premiers, they were also a very good price. These two points are related.
I would put this another way, if someone from a dealer came to my house, removed my D1000 that I bought brand new and replaced them with a D1000 upgraded from a two year older D800, I would probably do that same said dealer some physical damage. I would not be happy.
EDIT. I am not sure if I have interpreted this 100% correctly, but a 'brand new factory sealed' unit is exactly that, new, to be sold at retail price, or something close to retail with a discount. A 120 upgraded to a 220Pro is a second-hand unit, which should be substantially cheaper. So zero difference to the electronics, we can agree. But a substantial difference in terms of a fair selling price.
I agree, brand new is brand new. Upgraded is upgraded. The casing isn’t in the same condition.
A few years ago, I was looking for a Cary dealer in the UK to do a modification on my SEI-300. Stone Audio promoted themselves as an authorised Cary Audio dealer, but when I checked with Cary in the USA they immediately responded and said that no, Stone Audio were not, and never had been, authorised dealers, and that Cary would be taking legal action against them. (Incidentally, Cary went on to provide absolutely first class support to resolve my little issue. They are a top notch manufacturer, and I still have the amp, which I use from time to time, just for grins)
Sounds like not much has changed. I think you have been somewhat mugged, and I completely agree with the comments of the Confused one.