Phantoms not supporting anything higher than 24bits/48Khz - Printable Version +- Devialet Chat (https://devialetchat.com) +-- Forum: Devialet Chat (https://devialetchat.com/Forum-Devialet-Chat) +--- Forum: Phantom I (103 DB, 108 DB, Premier Classic, Silver & Gold) (https://devialetchat.com/Forum-Phantom-I-103-DB-108-DB-Premier-Classic-Silver-Gold) +--- Thread: Phantoms not supporting anything higher than 24bits/48Khz (/Thread-Phantoms-not-supporting-anything-higher-than-24bits-48Khz) |
RE: Phantoms not supporting anything higher than 24bits/48Khz - struts - 11-Feb-2021 (11-Feb-2021, 18:32)bpo Wrote:(11-Feb-2021, 15:14)DesertEagleAZ Wrote:(10-Feb-2021, 23:16)struts Wrote: I have to admit I can’t make head or tail of this. In what way does Phantom support RAAT at 24/96 but not at 24/192? My Phantoms at least appear to treat them identically. Look again. In @DesertEagleAZ 's screenshots under the "Phantom Gold I Stereo" line (i.e. inside the Phantom) there is a downsampling from 96 to 48 in both cases. I avoid that in my system because I am downsampling to 48 already in Roon. RE: Phantoms not supporting anything higher than 24bits/48Khz - bpo - 11-Feb-2021 (11-Feb-2021, 18:32)bpo Wrote:(11-Feb-2021, 15:14)DesertEagleAZ Wrote:(10-Feb-2021, 23:16)struts Wrote: I have to admit I can’t make head or tail of this. In what way does Phantom support RAAT at 24/96 but not at 24/192? My Phantoms at least appear to treat them identically. Okay - scratch my comments above - I guess it was wishful thinking. Sounds like it downsamples internally and doesn't report back to Roon that it did that.... added layer of confusion, haha. Phantoms not supporting anything higher than 24bits/48Khz - struts - 11-Feb-2021 bpo Wrote: Sounds like it downsamples internally and doesn't report back to Roon that it did that.... added layer of confusion, haha. Er, reporting back to Roon is exactly what it is doing. Otherwise you wouldn’t be seeing the downsampling reported in the Roon signal path.. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk RE: Phantoms not supporting anything higher than 24bits/48Khz - DesertEagleAZ - 11-Feb-2021 (11-Feb-2021, 19:18)struts Wrote:bpo Wrote: Sounds like it downsamples internally and doesn't report back to Roon that it did that.... added layer of confusion, haha. @struts I'm curious — what's better about Roon doing the downsampling vs. having the Phantoms do it? RE: Phantoms not supporting anything higher than 24bits/48Khz - struts - 11-Feb-2021 (11-Feb-2021, 22:38)DesertEagleAZ Wrote:(11-Feb-2021, 19:18)struts Wrote:bpo Wrote: Sounds like it downsamples internally and doesn't report back to Roon that it did that.... added layer of confusion, haha. Haha, call it a general mistrust for Devialet software chops! Actually it is more a trust for Roon and their ASRC algorithm. Its configurability with options (precise vs smooth, linear vs minimum phase etc.) kind of shows that they have really thought this through and allows me to select according to my preference (which is usually for minimum phase). As for the Devialet algorithm, well, who knows? A black box as are most things Devialet. Another point is just a hunch that it is better to downsample once than twice. I can't actually back that one up with any well reasoned arguments, it just "feels" better. RE: Phantoms not supporting anything higher than 24bits/48Khz - DesertEagleAZ - 11-Feb-2021 Fair enough! Thanks for sharing RE: Phantoms not supporting anything higher than 24bits/48Khz - quartz78 - 12-Feb-2021 (11-Feb-2021, 11:25)quagga Wrote: The second change is the internal DAC capability, it was stated even for the Reactors to be 24bits/192kHz, and now it is 24bits/96kHz. Everybody seems to forget there is SAM processing at the end of the chain (you can see it in Roon screenshots). So it is quite possible that SAM operates at 96 kHz even if the signal is 48 kHz, and that would explain why a higher frequency DAC is used. I'll take a risk of being shooed by all the audiophiles here, but it occurs to me that since SAM does (and always did) something absolutely unknown and potentially destructive to all those precious bits and kHz (but creating the "Devialet sound" in the process), how much does the original pristine hi def really matter in such a system? RE: Phantoms not supporting anything higher than 24bits/48Khz - ogs - 12-Feb-2021 One thing to remember here is that Phantoms did (does?) upsampling to 192kHz. It's part of ADH, same as Expert amplifiers. Devialet Support confirmed this to me in email (September 2020). The essence of my question was: "Is audio re-sampled in Phantom Premier and Reactor? 192kHz?" the answer was very clear: "YES, upsampling also occurs in our Phantom range of products." I do not know if this is also the case in firmware 2.12.x. Phantoms not supporting anything higher than 24bits/48Khz - struts - 13-Feb-2021 SAM and ADH may well be working their magic at higher sampling rates (as always with Devialet we just don’t know) but if hi res signals have been brick wall filtered at 48kHz the damage to the signal, which is in the time domain and across the audioband, is done and can’t be repaired by subsequent upsampling. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk RE: Phantoms not supporting anything higher than 24bits/48Khz - ogs - 13-Feb-2021 Right. If upsampling is still done in the new version, it does nothing but move the filtering in the DAC to a higher frequency, further away from the music signals. I never actually liked upsampling much apart from the cases where one happened to hit a 'better' working condition for the signal chain with changed or indeed improved sound quality as result. Like the D250 Pro I owned. I preferred to send native sample rate to the amp an let it do the upsampling rather than use the Roon DSP for it. I believe Devialet made real effort to get 192kHz sampling to sound great instead of trying to get all six rates to work well (and fail). |