Devialet announcements in Paris in week 42 2024.

[alphafox]

It was pasta actually - but Italian food is always the solution to everything :-D

a completely new amp would be a problem, most owners of a Devialet without firmware support will not buy a new one. In this case selling old ones would only be possible with a new drop in value.
An update would be better as there is a big number of potential customers for this. But in this case I think it will be expensive as they need money...

Come on, we're talking about gears that were purchased years ago and that brought plenty of joyful moments to their owners. I don't see why you would not trust Devialet when purchasing a new amp.
It's just like a car: are you complaining to Renault or Mercedes if the dashboard hasn't been updated to CarPlay 3.0 ? You use it as long as it serves its purpose and purchase a new one when the needs arise and you have the budget for it.
As far as I'm concerned, the current firmware does its job well : are they really critical problems that still need to be solved ?

[ada]

I don't agree, I would not buy another amp from Devialet if they are abandoning the Expert line, specially Core Infinity with zero follow up releases. Their sell point back in 2016 was around the future proofness and what we got was:

1) Devialet AIR being obsolete with new MacOS releases
2) No Tidal or Qobuz connect
3) No further additional capability (like Dirac Live etc)
4) No AirPlay 2 while Phantom got it
5) No Bluetooth (even if it is not used again Phantom had it)
6) Zero incremental DOS update! Zero! The Phantom has at least 10 iteration over the one Expert has!
7) Expert Pro remote app in Android is also obsolete now!

I am sorry, if this is a new system that doesn't go with the existing Expert Core Infinity I am not convinced to buy it as I know they will abandon it in an unknown state again. Now it is Devialet's turn to earn our trust, not the vice versa, we have good reasons to not to trust them and they are the one coming back from their ashes, let them prove it!

[alphafox]

I don't agree, I would not buy another amp from Devialet if they are abandoning the Expert line, specially Core Infinity with zero follow up releases. Their sell point back in 2016 was around the future proofness and what we got was:

1) Devialet AIR being obsolete with new MacOS releases
2) No Tidal or Qobuz connect
3) No further additional capability (like Dirac Live etc)
4) No AirPlay 2 while Phantom got it
5) No Bluetooth (even if it is not used again Phantom had it)
6) Zero incremental DOS update! Zero! The Phantom has at least 10 iteration over the one Expert has!
7) Expert Pro remote app in Android is also obsolete now!

I am sorry, if this is a new system that doesn't go with the existing Expert Core Infinity I am not convinced to buy it as I know they will abandon it in an unknown state again. Now it is Devialet's turn to earn our trust, not the vice versa, we have good reasons to not to trust them and they are the one coming back from their ashes, let them prove it!

Selling points back in 2016... we're almost in 2025 ! What would you expect ?

1. I imagine not so many people still use Devialet AIR, mainly streaming from Spotify, Apple Music or Roon today
2. You can get it thru Roon which is much better but I understand this could be an issue... just like it is with other ten year-old systems
3. Some room control has been added... it still remains a fully featured integrated amplifier (SAM, ICM, etc.)
4. This could be an issue, but is it critical ? If you're serious in hi-fi, you should use Roon instead
5. Why would you use bluetooth on a hi-fi system ? It's like listening to mp3s...
6. What does the DOS have to provide for an improved listening experience ? Beside a VU meter, I don't see...
7. This could be an issue, but again is it critical ? One reason I love my D220 is the remote control. I barely use the mobile app...

I can understand you're not convinced to buy a new one: it's your decision ultimately and they are many other OEMs providing interesting solutions ! But asking for 10-year future-proofing is a bit too excessive in my humble opinion, especially when the key selling point of the amplifier is its sound quality and performance (SAM baby!).

[ada]

I think you are missing my point here, 10 years with no update and a lot of false promises and majority of these promises even after 10 years with zero of them being delivered is still on their website.

This company sold a dream that has never been real, come on! I am not making it up, they promised a lot with CI and they abandoned the whole line for 10 years and you are still creating counter arguments, go and check their website and the promises they have, those are still there as you can see, even after 10 years of not delivering them they didn't even remove those from the website. It is not that I am not convinced there is a false expectations being set and selling lies! I like my amps but I need this brand to earn my trust if they want me to buy from them again. They need to show that they can deliver because in last 10 years they didn't deliver even once and again it is not that I wanted them to deliver, THEY HAVE PROMISED TO DELIVER and they didn't, here is the proof:

   
   

[alphafox]

I think you are missing my point here, 10 years with no update and a lot of false promises and majority of these promises even after 10 years with zero of them being delivered is still on their website.

This company sold a dream that has never been real, come on! I am not making it up, they promised a lot with CI and they abandoned the whole line for 10 years and you are still creating counter arguments, go and check their website and the promises they have, those are still there as you can see, even after 10 years of not delivering them they didn't even remove those from the website. It is not that I am not convinced there is a false expectations being set and selling lies! I like my amps but I need this brand to earn my trust if they want me to buy from them again. They need to show that they can deliver because in last 10 years they didn't deliver even once and again it is not that I wanted them to deliver, THEY HAVE PROMISED TO DELIVER and they didn't, here is the proof:

No, I'm not missing the point. It's just that I am able to make my own opinion and see thru the marketing promises. In the first years, they fixed many issues thru SW update (I still have the 7.1.3 to 13.2.0 archives, from 2015 to 2020). Indeed, they stopped working on CI because, most likely, the board was not capable to support the new features we'll discover in the new product, assuming it's an integrated amplifier. Still, the quality and ROI of the Expert range are exceptional and I trust I'll be able to use mine many more years to come as a true hi-fi system. For me, trust is based on quality, not SW gimmicks that any Chinese OEM can provide. ADH and SAM are the cornerstone of my hi-fi experience and I thank them for that.

But again, your dollars/euros/whatever are your vote: spend them wisely for your pleasure!

[ada]

I think we are aligned on majority of the things, the only disagreement here is you are seeing the SW as gimmicks (I am making all my dollars/euros from SW btw but from a proper one ) Imagine these gimmicks that you see were the biggest bet of 2017 as Devialet freely collected all the Experts in the world (and still doing it for free even today) and upgrade them to CI for free because they believed that this was the most important thing of their roadmap.

Very few points:

-Roon sound quality, i am not convinced it is the best and again I am a SW guy, I mainly know why it is not the best

-SAM, have you ever measured your speakers with and without SAM on and different percentages. I am not saying it is good or bad but if you call SW as gimmick this is one of the biggest gimmicks of the world (it says fixing the bass response without taking into account all the other problems of the world of how when you alter the sound waves on some frequency how badly those could impact the rest etc). At the end you would love SAM but for some purist people it is altering the sound in a very gimmick way with being far from proper science. (I am happy to share some white papers if you are interested in)

-Chinese OEM provided gimmicks: 5cm DAC line is one of the best selling parts Expert line, having everything in shorter distance with less cable involves in the path is the right way to go for the best sound to have. Shorter cables almost always better (there are exceptions on digital cables with risk of reflections) specially for the analog signal. That's why I don't want to have longer speaker cables or streamers even if they are digital etc. For me having the bits directly being streamed into amp is really key and unfortunately Devialet promised that with CI and that's why I am angry. I am not angry because of SW gimmicks but this was promise of Devialet with CI and they broke all the promises and they are still promising in their website which is lie in the easiest way of telling.

[alphafox]

"I am a SW guy, I mainly know why it is not the best..."

... coming from a guy whose signature include Cardas Clear USB, Blue Jeans Ethernet and Van Den Hul The Breeze hybrid speaker cables !

BTW, I'm curious to get your definition of "proper science".

At the end of the day, yes, I'm trusting my ears, based on years of instrument playing and concerts. I've been raised in the Cabasse philosophy and am expecting high fidelity sound reproduction, meaning the closest to the real thing: piano, voice, violin, percussions, flute, guitar... The rest - Bluetooth, room correction, UI - is not so important.

One last thing regarding the promises : do you have them written in a contract signed by Devialet ? No. It is called capitalism and it illustrates the changes in strategy within companies: new stakeholders mean new directions. I'm glad they kept the Expert line for so long and even managed to provide me with upgrades from 120, to 200, to 220, solving SW issues with about twenty releases. And I'm even happier that they're (supposedly) launching a new one on the 24th.

[ada]

Why are you attacking my cable choices, you don't know under which conditions I owned them They were generally part of the deals of speakers or other components, instead of providing discounts I was able to get some functional items as that's very common. You should always know the circumstances before you attack onto something. Life is about trade offs, nothing is ideal.

Definition of proper science is more on physics of the world, I am a strong believer (which is an important word because everything we know in the world needs some believes/preconditions including math and physics) of modern physics and that's what I call proper science. You can look into Dirac's white papers about how to fix response problems in the time domain for example, I count those as proper science.

There is nothing wrong on trusting your ears and enjoying your music, that's why we are obsessed in the domain we are discussing but when you come to meaning the closest to the real thing ignoring room correction (without a matter of digital or physical) will be a mistake but again that's my personal belief again. But anyway, this is not about you or me, this is about Devialet promising something and that's ending up being not delivered. Have you ever think about why did they delivered 10 iterations of DOS for Phantom while they didn't bother themselves even for 1 iteration? Those are thinks that matters to me, not my persona taste or ambition.

Coming to written contract, yes we don't have one, but the lies are still on their website and with the money in my pocket I am not going further to give them any more cents. They need to earn my trust back as a customer before abandoning me as a mislead Expert CI customer.

But again, please do not take my personal arguments against you, I am seeing these debates healthy for any person following up here to ensure they know what they are investing on in the future.

[mdconnelly]

If whatever they're releasing is actually a replacement/improvement over the Expert Pro line, I ponder what would it take for me to buy it. Like @ada, I've been hugely disappointed in the lack of Devialet pursuit of their CI architecture not to mention annoying bugs. I've still got my 440 Pro and still love what it sounds like, but I cringe when I need to make a configuration change. There have always been headaches with the Configurator with dual mono setups.

So, with that said, I still might consider it if they offered a reasonable upgrade/trade-in path which would tell me that their Expert Pro customers have not been forgotten. But I would still need to get over my lack of trust of Devialet to go there. It will be interesting to see what they release, but I won't be surprised if we all exhale a huge groan once they unveil whatever it is.

[alphafox]

Hey, Ada, I'm absolutely not taking things against me. I'm a grown up guy enjoying healthy debates, just like you.

On the cables, I couldn't resist mentioning them as I went to enough recording studios to know what they're using!
On the science side, I'm also an engineer who spent enough time on signal processing to understand correction solutions have their limits, just like SAM or Dirac. However, digital RC for me is the worst thing: playing with bits with terrible side effects (the limit of the possible listening positions for example). It reminds me the subwoofer+2 satellites architecture: you can never achieve the right balance.
My disagreement is on your perception of marketing promises and the actual value Devialet delivered. I'm thankful for the fact that such a high-fidelity amplifier is still working today in a world of programmed obsolescence, having the luxury to have SW updates to address critical issues and bringing new features like ICM, and the great services of having three SAM profiles made for me, two of them at home.
I'm eager to know more about the new system (assuming it's a new integrated amplifier), and the possibility to upgrade ours.