03-Feb-2016, 15:15
Hi guys,
For years now, I've been sitting on the fence when it comes to the cable debate. Reason being; I always had more important things to spend my money on. Yesterday though, I ordered myself a 'high end' USB cable (Straight into the deep end on the controversial scale
) and in light of the current argy bargy on Stephen_V's thread I thought I would start a new one here so you guys can abuse me and leave his thread for what he intended it to be.
What I'm going to try to do here is write up my findings in an objective way. Why do I think I can be objective? Well, a few things.
For one, I've listened to a lot of reasonably priced and very expensive systems in the past and have found that price had no influence on whether or not I was impressed with the sound. Proof to me I'm not easily biased. And the cost of my new cable really isn't going to make a dent in my financial situation so there will be absolutely no need to justify my purchase. I'm buying this cable for the purpose of learning and gaining an opinion only.
Two, I don't have any audiophile friends to impress with my 'shiny new cable'. If anything I would probably be laughed at by most if I told them what I 'wasted' my money on.
Third, I don't believe the placebo effect will have an influence on me in this case for one simple reason; I want to hear a clear difference in the sound. If I'm going to have to guess then there is no difference worth mentioning as far as I'm concerned.
A bit of back ground information on me and why I'm open to the subject. After all, ones and zeros etc...
I work on an oil and gas rig as a Measuring Whilst Drilling hand. We use down hole tools that use digital communication to get the message across.
This is how it works; Drilling gets done with a drill bit on the end of drill pipe. In the bit are a few jets and water gets pumped through the pipe and jets, circulated to surface on the outside of the pipe and with it will come the cuttings so the well stays clean and we don't get stuck.
In the drill pipe sits our tool taking all kinds of readings. The tool has a little poppet that can partially restrict the flow of the water for a short period. The short restriction will created a small increase in pressure and presto; there's a 1. On surface there's a pressure transducer that 'sees' the increase in pressure and converts that to a change in Voltage; A series of pressure changes at the right time create 'digital' words, with the use of some smart algorithms.
It's quite a simple idea but it gets a bit more complicated than that; There's interference! Whoohoohoooo
1. The pumps use pistons and valves creating a pressure change of themselves; creating harmonics. With that will come first, second, third etc. harmonics that could all be seen as pulses and therefore influence the proper reading of the original words.
2. The cables are long and run along other cables. This creates magnetic interference, which in turn creates electrical interference, thus creating another obstacle for a clear 'reading' of the words.
Because the pulse frequency is very low (4-8Hz) I can actually see the pulses on our computer screen. Yes, I can see the shape of the pulses created by the system as a whole. And I can tell you that, in some cases, it doesn't look pretty. And we can freeze the pulses as well and count them. This way we can find out if some words are actually made up of the ones and zeros they are meant to be made up of.
And in some cases, there is a shift in the pulses; Jitter!
Still, we can take surveys that make directional drilling more accurate then the best sharp shooters on the planet; We hit 4 inch targets much further away than the best sharp shooter can hit a person. Pretty cool stuff.
So it's clear that the interference is there but it's also clear that the interference can be dealt with adequately. In this case that is done with very sophisticated filtering and algorithms. (a 1 billion US$ / year budget can buy you some fancy gear)
So how does all this equate to USB or any other digital cable? Well, I've seen proof that digital signal isn't digital at all; It's an analog signal that varies in Voltage (common knowledge), quality (some pulses look really wonky) and timing. It's the timing that I would like to delve in a bit deeper.
In MWD there are rules; The word are part of a sentence in a certain order and of a certain length. So the surface system knows what's meant to be coming and has a pretty good idea of what's rubbish and what's not. If a pulse has shifted a bit, it can be 'moved' so the word makes sense. If the signal is complete rubbish, the system will let us know and will wait for the sync word, sent at the start of every sentence, and disregard the previous sentence.
In digital music transfer, I have no knowledge of such a system. As far as I know, one end spits it our and the other end catches it. There are too many variables in music for the receiving end to know what's rubbish of not. (again, as far as I know)
What I have absolutely no idea of though is how robust digital music transfer is compared to what I use at work. What I do know is that the higher you go in frequency, the harder it is for a signal to stay intact...
...Which makes a reasonable case for 'not all ones and zeros are the same'. Hence, I'm open to the subject.
So, in the coming weeks / months I will write my finding and at some stage I will jump off the fence on one of the sides. Interesting times ahead!
For years now, I've been sitting on the fence when it comes to the cable debate. Reason being; I always had more important things to spend my money on. Yesterday though, I ordered myself a 'high end' USB cable (Straight into the deep end on the controversial scale
) and in light of the current argy bargy on Stephen_V's thread I thought I would start a new one here so you guys can abuse me and leave his thread for what he intended it to be.What I'm going to try to do here is write up my findings in an objective way. Why do I think I can be objective? Well, a few things.
For one, I've listened to a lot of reasonably priced and very expensive systems in the past and have found that price had no influence on whether or not I was impressed with the sound. Proof to me I'm not easily biased. And the cost of my new cable really isn't going to make a dent in my financial situation so there will be absolutely no need to justify my purchase. I'm buying this cable for the purpose of learning and gaining an opinion only.
Two, I don't have any audiophile friends to impress with my 'shiny new cable'. If anything I would probably be laughed at by most if I told them what I 'wasted' my money on.
Third, I don't believe the placebo effect will have an influence on me in this case for one simple reason; I want to hear a clear difference in the sound. If I'm going to have to guess then there is no difference worth mentioning as far as I'm concerned.
A bit of back ground information on me and why I'm open to the subject. After all, ones and zeros etc...
I work on an oil and gas rig as a Measuring Whilst Drilling hand. We use down hole tools that use digital communication to get the message across.
This is how it works; Drilling gets done with a drill bit on the end of drill pipe. In the bit are a few jets and water gets pumped through the pipe and jets, circulated to surface on the outside of the pipe and with it will come the cuttings so the well stays clean and we don't get stuck.
In the drill pipe sits our tool taking all kinds of readings. The tool has a little poppet that can partially restrict the flow of the water for a short period. The short restriction will created a small increase in pressure and presto; there's a 1. On surface there's a pressure transducer that 'sees' the increase in pressure and converts that to a change in Voltage; A series of pressure changes at the right time create 'digital' words, with the use of some smart algorithms.
It's quite a simple idea but it gets a bit more complicated than that; There's interference! Whoohoohoooo
1. The pumps use pistons and valves creating a pressure change of themselves; creating harmonics. With that will come first, second, third etc. harmonics that could all be seen as pulses and therefore influence the proper reading of the original words.
2. The cables are long and run along other cables. This creates magnetic interference, which in turn creates electrical interference, thus creating another obstacle for a clear 'reading' of the words.
Because the pulse frequency is very low (4-8Hz) I can actually see the pulses on our computer screen. Yes, I can see the shape of the pulses created by the system as a whole. And I can tell you that, in some cases, it doesn't look pretty. And we can freeze the pulses as well and count them. This way we can find out if some words are actually made up of the ones and zeros they are meant to be made up of.
And in some cases, there is a shift in the pulses; Jitter!
Still, we can take surveys that make directional drilling more accurate then the best sharp shooters on the planet; We hit 4 inch targets much further away than the best sharp shooter can hit a person. Pretty cool stuff.
So it's clear that the interference is there but it's also clear that the interference can be dealt with adequately. In this case that is done with very sophisticated filtering and algorithms. (a 1 billion US$ / year budget can buy you some fancy gear)
So how does all this equate to USB or any other digital cable? Well, I've seen proof that digital signal isn't digital at all; It's an analog signal that varies in Voltage (common knowledge), quality (some pulses look really wonky) and timing. It's the timing that I would like to delve in a bit deeper.
In MWD there are rules; The word are part of a sentence in a certain order and of a certain length. So the surface system knows what's meant to be coming and has a pretty good idea of what's rubbish and what's not. If a pulse has shifted a bit, it can be 'moved' so the word makes sense. If the signal is complete rubbish, the system will let us know and will wait for the sync word, sent at the start of every sentence, and disregard the previous sentence.
In digital music transfer, I have no knowledge of such a system. As far as I know, one end spits it our and the other end catches it. There are too many variables in music for the receiving end to know what's rubbish of not. (again, as far as I know)
What I have absolutely no idea of though is how robust digital music transfer is compared to what I use at work. What I do know is that the higher you go in frequency, the harder it is for a signal to stay intact...
...Which makes a reasonable case for 'not all ones and zeros are the same'. Hence, I'm open to the subject.
So, in the coming weeks / months I will write my finding and at some stage I will jump off the fence on one of the sides. Interesting times ahead!
Lifetime Roon, Mac mini, int. SSD, ext. HDD, tv as monitor, key board and track pad on bean bag as remote,Devialet 200, Od'A #097, Blue jeans speaker cable,
Dynaudio C1 MkII.
Jim Smith's GBS.
Northern NSW Australia.
Dynaudio C1 MkII.
Jim Smith's GBS.
Northern NSW Australia.
