Kef Reference 3 + Devialet 200

[f1eng]

Then enlighten me my friend
All I'm trying to say is that small speakers can't go that low in frequency then large speakers cause of their cabinet size and or drivers.
Like I said the Phantom goes low for its size and on paper is goes lower then some large floorstanders. It can give you the illusion of going
very low but put a big high end speaker beside it and it will be night and day. Software tweaks and engineering don't change the physical size of the speaker it can help but it's still limited.

So what you mean is that because I am saying small speakers can sound impressive but can't deliver those bottom octaves like larger speakers can
I'm telling things that aren't true and it's not credible. That's what I call a contradiction.

Sound is pressure fluctuation. If the pressure fluctuation is there the sound is.
Yes, using crude engineering the only way to get low frequencies is a big driver in a big box, or if efficiency isn't an issue, a heavy driver in a smaller box.
Using modern technology, and Devialet are not the only people doing this, though their method is unique to them, it is possible to measure the transfer function of any box/driver combination and use that data to produce whatever frequency response you want.
Yes the maximum loudness will be limited by the size and travel of the bass units and the available power. That is all. The distortion can be compensated for.

So if the Phantom has a -6dB point of 20Hz it will have as much bass (probably better because of less distortion) as a 15" unit in a big cabinet if that has a -6dB point at 20Hz (most won't actually they will have less bass than the Phantom)

The pressure fluctuations that exist which can be felt must be exactly the same whether produced by a big box or a small if the level and frequency are the same.
It is absolutely impossible for this not to be the case.
Those little air molecules whizzing back and forth to produce the pressure fluctuations at your body haven't got a clue as to whether their mates back near the speaker are being pushed back and forth by a big driver or a small one.
Philips did this decades ago, it is not new.
You are not the first person I have seen on internet forums who is finding this hard to understand though!

That sound interesting but if I understand you correctly.
This would mean that for example the Kef Ref 1 goes with SAM to 23hz, the Ref 3 go to +- 21hz with SAM.
So if what you are saying is correct then at a normal or little more then normal listening lvl's there won't be any difference between the Ref 1 & 3?
So why even bother making/buying the Ref 3 or even the Ref 5.

So for example in the same room the Kef reference 5 (short tube) won't go as deep in bass as the Harbeth P3ESR both with SAM enabled

http://en.devialet.com/speakers/kef/kef-...short-port
http://en.devialet.com/speakers/harbeth/harbeth-p3esr

People seem to be getting confused between bass volume and bass frequency.
These small speakers will not be able to go very loud at the low frequencies, obviously, and with the thermal and displacement mapping so well explained on the web site if you turn them up a lot the low bass will be progressively reduced relative to the mid range.
As far as why the Reference 3 or 5 are made not everybody has a Devialet amp with SAM capability!!!!
The vast majority of KEFs customers will have a normal amp with no capability of making the correction. For these people the bigger speakers have give a lower bass cutoff as has always been the case with traditionally engineered hifi (which has barely changed for 50 years).
The maximum loudness is an important limitation.
The silver phantom requires 3000 watts to achieve 105dB at one meter. My Tune Audio Animas only go down to 40Hz or so but I require less than 1 watt to achieve 105dB at 1 meter.
Big active pro monitors like ATC 150s achieve 117dB at 1 m with a 200W amp on the 15" bass unit.

If you want low bass AT HIGH VOLUME you will need a different speaker than if you don't listen that loud or have a smaller room.
This has nothing whatsoever to do with the bass cutoff point of a SAMed speaker only how loud it can play at this frequency.
My Kef LS50s go really low with SAM, but I have only tried it once since in my big room these speakers are far too small to generate the volume at which I listen. They usually go in a small bedroom (with no Devialet) so do not benefit from SAM.