08-Nov-2017, 19:52
ConfusedNuno - It is excellent to see manufacturers contributing on forums such as this, I wish it happened more often to be honest. Good stuff! That said, I have seen some manufacturers forced off other forums due to very opinionated fanatics, troll like behaviour and so on. It can be dangerous territory, but Devialet Chat is generally a civilised place to visit.
That said, I can think of some counter arguments to what you have said above, some network end points and products like the Mutec MC3+USB are designed specifically to eliminate the 'upstream' noise, so the idea is that you can indeed have a 'noisy NAS' and then rely on the down-steam kit to eliminate any noise that has crept in. So different approaches. As I have never listened to a Zenith I have no grounds to argue which approach wins on a 'bang for buck' basis. To me it looks like a big part of the Zenith design philosophy is not to have the noise in the first place, and I have no argument with that being a fundamentally good idea.
From a very specific Devialet point of view (this is after all a Devialet forum), one problem I see with the Zenith is that it outputs via USB. Not an issue in itself, but all things being equal it is generally considered that the Devialet Expert sounds best when fed via it's AES/EBU input. An interesting point to consider here is the new Devialet OS Intelligence Core Infamy board that is soon to be installed in the latest 'Pro' models. This board has an upgraded USB input for our beloved amps. Time will tell as to just how good this new USB input will prove to be, but maybe future investigations will reveal that the best input for a Devialet Expert Pro is in fact USB. Time will tell. I also note that there are two dealers that list Innuos products located less than an hour's drive from my house. Maybe I'll get to hear one soon, listening to stuff is far more fun than debating design philosophies, I just need that new board with it's USB input, I believe it might be available soon?
Hi,
Thanks for the warm welcome. Indeed I tend to lurk around some forums for quite some time before intervening. There are very good debates here and I'm happy to see forum users behaving in a very civilised manner. Being with Innuos, and clearly being identified as such, does make my opinions biased, if not on purpose then at least by our experience or view on how certain things work. Digital is a delicate area and I find myself taking a good amount of time double-checking what I write. We don't claim to be the "know all, do all". Digital is still in its infancy - everybody has plenty to learn. I'm happy to share our experience but please take my opinions here as just another user sharing his experience.
I completely agree with you with regards to inputs and we do have reports from customers using the Zenith who have told us that using it with the Mutec and AES provided better results than connecting the Zenith via USB to a Devialet. It's really down to the implementation of both the source and the DAC/Amplifier. Each combination will have their own optimum connection and it may vary on many factors, cables included. If you connect a regular PC/Mac to the Devialet via USB and Ethernet, our experience is that via Ethernet is superior. With our Zenith, and particularly the SE, it's the opposite, our experience so far has been that USB sounds better. It's also difficult to say "AES sounds better", I'd rather say the Mutec connected via AES input to the Devialet sounds better than the source direct via USB. It doesn't necessarily mean another source with AES will sound better than that same source via USB.
In terms of power noise, indeed our view is that it's better to not get things dirty in the first place than try and clean them up afterwards. It's a bit like tainting a pristine mountain spring and then try to get it exactly like it was before. You can make it drinkeable, but it's unlikely it will ever be the same again... There's always something that seeps through and influences the rest of the chain. Maybe one day we get a connection based on quantum entanglement and this can finally be solved ;-)
That said, I can think of some counter arguments to what you have said above, some network end points and products like the Mutec MC3+USB are designed specifically to eliminate the 'upstream' noise, so the idea is that you can indeed have a 'noisy NAS' and then rely on the down-steam kit to eliminate any noise that has crept in. So different approaches. As I have never listened to a Zenith I have no grounds to argue which approach wins on a 'bang for buck' basis. To me it looks like a big part of the Zenith design philosophy is not to have the noise in the first place, and I have no argument with that being a fundamentally good idea.
From a very specific Devialet point of view (this is after all a Devialet forum), one problem I see with the Zenith is that it outputs via USB. Not an issue in itself, but all things being equal it is generally considered that the Devialet Expert sounds best when fed via it's AES/EBU input. An interesting point to consider here is the new Devialet OS Intelligence Core Infamy board that is soon to be installed in the latest 'Pro' models. This board has an upgraded USB input for our beloved amps. Time will tell as to just how good this new USB input will prove to be, but maybe future investigations will reveal that the best input for a Devialet Expert Pro is in fact USB. Time will tell. I also note that there are two dealers that list Innuos products located less than an hour's drive from my house. Maybe I'll get to hear one soon, listening to stuff is far more fun than debating design philosophies, I just need that new board with it's USB input, I believe it might be available soon?
Hi,
Thanks for the warm welcome. Indeed I tend to lurk around some forums for quite some time before intervening. There are very good debates here and I'm happy to see forum users behaving in a very civilised manner. Being with Innuos, and clearly being identified as such, does make my opinions biased, if not on purpose then at least by our experience or view on how certain things work. Digital is a delicate area and I find myself taking a good amount of time double-checking what I write. We don't claim to be the "know all, do all". Digital is still in its infancy - everybody has plenty to learn. I'm happy to share our experience but please take my opinions here as just another user sharing his experience.
I completely agree with you with regards to inputs and we do have reports from customers using the Zenith who have told us that using it with the Mutec and AES provided better results than connecting the Zenith via USB to a Devialet. It's really down to the implementation of both the source and the DAC/Amplifier. Each combination will have their own optimum connection and it may vary on many factors, cables included. If you connect a regular PC/Mac to the Devialet via USB and Ethernet, our experience is that via Ethernet is superior. With our Zenith, and particularly the SE, it's the opposite, our experience so far has been that USB sounds better. It's also difficult to say "AES sounds better", I'd rather say the Mutec connected via AES input to the Devialet sounds better than the source direct via USB. It doesn't necessarily mean another source with AES will sound better than that same source via USB.
In terms of power noise, indeed our view is that it's better to not get things dirty in the first place than try and clean them up afterwards. It's a bit like tainting a pristine mountain spring and then try to get it exactly like it was before. You can make it drinkeable, but it's unlikely it will ever be the same again... There's always something that seeps through and influences the rest of the chain. Maybe one day we get a connection based on quantum entanglement and this can finally be solved ;-)
