How good is Roon AIR?

[ogs]

A new thread seems sensible for this one. I've used Roon's AIR implemetation since it was first released with build 243 of Roon. I am one of the lucky that have had no problems; no crakling, no white noise, no drop in sound. The first time I connected it to the ethernet port I got the "Transport: Device in Use" message, but this was resolved with reboots and I have not seen it since. I had my amp on wifi for remote control, but this did not work for Audio, so I reconfigured for ethernet cable. I had given up Devialet's AIR a long time ago as I got white noise within seconds no matter what I tried.

My normal setup is a microRendu connected to a Mutec MC-3+USB with AES/EBU to the amp. I've used this setup since my amp returned from France after upgrade to Pro in January, only interrupted by the amp upgrade to 10.1.0 and mR to v2.5.
I started with the same Roon configuration for RoonAIR as I've used with mR/Mutec. I immediately heard that RoonAIR sounded very good. Open and relaxed. Going back to mR/Mutec was better. More deep bass, better detail in the mid bass, more dynamic sound overall. But the midrange of AIR is quite exeptional and on par with the mR/Mutec combo even if is sounds a little different.
This comparison is obviously unfair to RoonAIR so I started to optimise a few tings. In my system mR/Mutec souds good when upsampling is done in Roon's DSP. I have "Power of 2" enabled which means that I send either 176.4 or 192 kHz to the mR. With RoonAIR I get better sound when the amplifier does upsampling so I send native samplerates. I also used a little parametric EQ in the deep bass to even out the amplitude difference to mR/Mutec.
With this optimisation AIR sounded even better. Midrange transparency is still there and now the bass range improved considerably in character and detail. This sounds extremely good! Very coherent with good dimensionality. Going back to the mR/Mutec combo I still get better and cleaner dynamics, but AIR is now quite close! I believe AIR is fully equal to a microRendu direct to the USB port, maybe better... Note: I have not tried this so it's an assumption.

What I'd like to try is isolating the ethernet input of the Devialet with a pair of FMCs. Others report good results with this on their ethrnet-enabled dacs so I assume this will work well directly to the Devialet as well. The Mutec seems to have less noise (lower noise floor) than AIR. If there is noise added on the ethernet input, FMCs should help with isolation. I won't do this until after the Core Infinity is mounted in my amp as I expect the new ethernet port to be 1000Base-T i.e. Gigabit. The new streamer board may be RAAT enabled or, accroding to the newest info we got thanks to Antoine, even Dante/AES67/Ravenna! Then a completely new comparison is needed.

This is how far I got before I shipped my microRendu off for update to 1.4 hardware. I've also ordered the UpTone USPCB to go between the mR and Mutec. We'll see how that goes   
In the mean time I am perfectly happy using Roon Air. I get direct feedback from the amp (volume dB, phase, tone controls) in Roon remote. For those who can not see the amps display this will be a major feature of Roon AIR.

[Hifi_swlon]

I can't distinguish RoonAIR from my Allo digiOne into the AES input (via BNC cable and Neutrik convertor).

But I think even with basic Room Correction applied, the room still has some negative effect and therefore I'm probably not hearing the really subtle differences.

I would be completely happy to live with RoonAIR for the foreseeable, but I've now disabled it. Since I nearly always want to group it with the kitchen, I've decided to just use the Allo as the main source. It was getting too complicated for anyone else using it, and even I had a hard time explaining 'why' it was setup in such a complicated way. I originally thought RoonAIR would sound better enough that it would warrant swapping over if just listening to the hifi, but that just doesn't seem to be the case - at least not at a level I care about.

I'd love to lose the extra boxes and go back to Ethernet only, but that will wait for the (hopefully) upcoming RAAT in the streamerboard. At which point I'll use it grouped, and will be done (unless it sounds awful which seems unlikely).

Meanwhile I just hope Roon sort out that volume control so by the time I can use it again it's less easy to destroy my speakers/ears/neighbour relations.

[mdconnelly]

Ogs, I'll be eager to hear your views on the benefits, if any, of the updated 1.4 microRendu. I bought into the microRendu back when Devialet AIR was nothing more than a white noise, BSOD generator. But now, Roon AIR is a clear step above my microRendu (still using the ifi PS). But, I still use the microRendu when I want to sync with other Squeezebox endpoints in my home. I'll probably upgrade the microRendu to 1.4 if consensus shows it to be a clear win.

Other than that, I'm quite content to wait to see what the Core Infinity brings to the table.

[ogs]

I've been thinking of the digiOne into the Mutec (in stead of microRendu/USB). I have a feeling the new Core Infinity will give us very good sound quality. The Audinate chip is a promising sign, but also the AKM4137 SRC. If Devialet is using this for re-clocking of the packet stream I may be able to sell the Mutec? RoonAIR is very close to mR/Mutec already. I think the difference actually is re-clocking. The digiOne also does re-clocking if I have read the specs correctly so there are multiple ways to a good data stream. I also have a Neutrik in a drawer somewhere. Used it with a Squeezebox Touch some years ago.

[ogs]

Ogs, I'll be eager to hear your views on the benefits, if any, of the updated 1.4 microRendu.    I bought into the microRendu back when Devialet AIR was nothing more than a white noise, BSOD generator.   But now,  Roon AIR is a clear step above my microRendu (still using the ifi PS).   But, I still use the microRendu when I want to sync with other Squeezebox endpoints in my home.  I'll probably upgrade the microRendu to 1.4 if consensus shows it to be a clear win.

Other than that, I'm quite content to wait to see what the Core Infinity brings to the table.

The microRendu may still surprise us with Core Infinity. Devialet is upgrading the XMOS processor and hopefully it's working environment so the USB input should be improved. I will certainly report my findings with 1.4 hw.

[f1eng]

I would say the best sound I get streaming is Audirvana+ with AIR. I have tried Roon but don't find it better and it doesn't integrate Qobuz (and won't since Qobuz don't want to, apparently) and its interface is like my Sooloos system which I don't really like and should sell, so I am back on Audirvana after my trial with Roon. I may well keep having another go with it whilst my free trial lasts.

[GuillaumeB]

I would say the best sound I get streaming is Audirvana+ with AIR. I have tried Roon but don't find it better and it doesn't integrate Qobuz (and won't since Qobuz don't want to, apparently) and its interface is like my Sooloos system which I don't really like and should sell, so I am back on Audirvana after my trial with Roon. I may well keep having another go with it whilst my free trial lasts.

Hi Frank 

How do you find Audirvana's integration with Qobuz? Do you use an iPad as a control point?

Guillaume

[Hifi_swlon]

I would say the best sound I get streaming is Audirvana+ with AIR. I have tried Roon but don't find it better and it doesn't integrate Qobuz (and won't since Qobuz don't want to, apparently) and its interface is like my Sooloos system which I don't really like and should sell, so I am back on Audirvana after my trial with Roon. I may well keep having another go with it whilst my free trial lasts.

Roon have given some big hints about a complete ui redesign, which sounds like will be completely new and also allow portrait mode.

I can see why they started with a SoolOos look (since they designed it) and roons ui was miles ahead of the competition IMO. But it's slightly dating now, and does have some annoying quirks so I won't be too upset to see it revamped. Let's just hope the new ones better!

[pjlarge]

I think it's superb - Ive got ROCK running on an Intel NUC and it's rock solid into a 1000 Pro.  No dropouts, no glitches, great sound quality.  Only thing on the wish list is that BBC Radio 2 would work on the radios - it doesn't :-(

[Hifi_swlon]

This is what I use for radio 2 in Roon, which is the highest quality one as far as I know - works fine here although I don't use it much I'm a 6 music fan really:

Code:

http://a.files.bbci.co.uk/media/live/manifesto/audio/simulcast/hls/uk/sbr_high/ak/bbc_radio_two.m3u8

Or is it a ROCK issue with radio?