"Audiophile Grade" Ethernet Switches - The new generation

[David A]

@David A Once again to be quite clear, I am not trying to deny what people may or may not hear, nor their right to choose how to spend their money.  I am simply asking you to be fair-minded about how you apply what you consider to be scientific principles and the duty of proof.

Since UpTone are the ones making the claim that unicorns exist, the onus is on them to prove that, before they go on to prove that they know how to slay the unicorns which is what they are asserting (otherwise ER has no objective, technical purpose).  Failing those two proofs, the default assumption in line with good scientific principles must be that unicorns do not exist since no one has ever seen one, and (in this case) there is good reason to believe that they do not exist.

You're right. Uptone are making a claim therefore the onus of proof is on them. So far they have provided no proof of their own but they have released the product and users are reporting their experiences. Those experiences are positive and that is evidence of something. Whether or not those listening reports can be verified in a replicable way has not been demonstrated but they can't simply be ignored or dismissed out of hand on principle. They do need to be acknowledged and tested.

@David A Let me provide some examples of what I mean by a fair-minded position.  I can see a couple, which you may consider alternatives although they are not mutually exclusive:

1) UpTone's marketing material is "pseudoscience" (to use your term) and has nothing useful to say about the objective effect of the ER

2) ASR's test provides a data point indicating ER has no objective effect; in the absence of any other data points indicating that ER does have an objective effect, the default assumption should be that it doesn't (until/unless proven otherwise).

 
ASR's test shows that the performance of the ER is no different to a specific other ethernet switch in certain respects. It does not show that the ER is no different from all other ethernet switches in those respects (that would require comparisons to all other switches which is obviously an unrealistic test requirement) nor does it show that the ER is no different from the comparison switch in every respect that can be measured. It does not demonstrate that the tests which were conducted were the only tests required to show that there is no significant difference between the performance of the ER and the compared switch. It also did not include a listening test so it offers no evidence that the claims of the users who report hearing a difference are either true or false.

As for balance of proof, Uptone should provide proof of the veracity of their claims. I have never suggested otherwise. On the other hand ASR are making a different claim, a claim that the eR does not work and they should provide evidence of the veracity of that claim. The review fails to provide conclusive evidence that Uptone's claims for the eR making a performance improvement are false. What ASR can validly claim on the basis of their tests is that their tests provide no support for the truth of Uptone's claims, which is a very different thing to claiming that their tests show that Uptone's claims are false and the the ER does not work.

In order to show that the ER does something positive, Uptone need to provide a replicable listening test which shows that listeners do hear a difference and prefer the Uptone product. That is the only test which will show whether it works or not. What measurements showing a difference between the ER and other switches will show is where and how the ER makes a difference.

In order to show that the ER does not work as claimed then ASR needs to provide a replicable listening test showing that listeners either don't hear a difference (that would show that it does not produce an audible difference) or that listeners do hear a difference but prefer the control switch (that would show that the ER does not produce a beneficial improvement but actually makes things worse). What measurements failing to show a difference between the ER and other switches will show is that the ER does not make a difference on the parameters measured but those tests do not provide any information about anything which is not measured.

That's what I think is a fair minded position on the evidence to date. Uptone is making a specific claim that something works and produces a certain audible result and they should provide proof of the truth of their claims. ASR has a choice as to what kind of response they want to make. They can choose to conduct a limited set of tests which don't show a difference and report quite correctly that the tests they conducted provide no support for Uptone's claims, or they can choose to claim that the ER does not work in which case they need to provide proof that it doesn't and the tests they reported don't provide that level of proof. If they want to claim that it does not work and they can't provide proof that it does not work, proof to the same standards as they demand of Uptone, then people have as much reason to doubt ASR's claims as they do to doubt Uptone's. ASR are not in a position, on the basis of the tests they conducted, to make a claim that the ER does not work, all they can claim is that so far they have not been able to prove that it does work.

Can we put this to rest for now? I am not saying that the ER works or that it doesn't and can't work. I am not taking a side on that question. All I am saying is that at present no one is in a position to say that it can be proved that it does or does not work and that anyone who wants to make either of those claims should put up evidence of a kind that has yet to be produced. If you want to buy an ER before someone proves that it actually does or does not work you do so at your own risk. If you choose to buy you will spend money and get something that works or waste money and get something that doesn't work. If you choose not to buy you also do so at your own risk. You will either save money by not buying something that works or you will save money and miss out on owning something that would be beneficial to you. Whichever of the 2 choices you make, to buy or not to buy, at present you aren't going to be able to prove that you made the right choice and there are going to be people claiming that you made the wrong choice without being able to prove that.