"Audiophile Grade" Ethernet Switches - The new generation

[David A]

@David A - We've already discussed the ASR test in enough detail for both of us to understand how we feel about it, I think, so there is no need to re-hash that.

First of all I am not "throwing stones" at the listening reports, as you seem to suggest.  As I've said, I have nothing to say about the subjective sound quality offered by ER or whether it might be affected by the firmware update.  My point is solely about Alex Crespi's response - it is unreasonable for him to try to make excuses for negative listening reports by pointing fingers at the method which was also used to generate positive listening reports.  If he does not trust the method by which the positive reports were obtained he should have said so when they first started coming in.  If he does trust it, he should not be making excuses for the negative reports.  Simple as that.

First, I agreed with you about the fact that Alex Crespi's response was unreasonable given that he was now discounting the reports of people whose reports he had previously been happy to accept plus one could infer an element of "I'm telling you that there isn't an audible difference for you to hear here" in his response.

My point in analysing the ASR test was to point out that Amirm had conducted a test that was more than open to criticism and then said to readers that if they heard a difference then they needed to go back and conduct a far more stringent test than he had conducted and that they would then find that, like him, they heard no difference. That's equally unreasonable and also contains a solid element of "I'm telling you that there isn't an audible difference for you to hear here". I'm quite happy to see you criticise Uptone for their response, but ASR took a similar approach to anyone who wants to report hearing something different to what they hear. I simply made the point that neither of them are doing themselvces any good in my view with that approach.

From my perspective I don't think we've discussed the ASR test in detail nor am I certain that we both understand how the other feels about it. In may view what I discussed was the fact that I don't believe the test conducted supports the conclusion drawn. I don't believe that the fact that no difference was found on a couple of parameters in a comparison of the the ER to one other switch goes anywhere near enabling anyone to claim that there is no difference period, which means that you won't be able to find a difference on any other parameter with the switch the ER was compared to, and also that you won't find any difference with any other switch you wish to compare the ER to. 

To make my position as clear as I can, I'm saying that to date no one has produced any compelling evidence to conclusively establish whether or not the ER works or doesn't work. I don't think anyone is in a position to claim to "know" whether it works or doesn't work. People on both sides are making statements based on their own beliefs and assumptions and people on both sides are making mistakes in their reasoning. What stands out for me, so far, is actually the owners' reports of what they have heard. Yes, the reliability of those reports can be questioned on several counts including expectation bias but taken as a whole I find it reassuring that they're not all saying the same thing, that some people are reporting hearing something different to others but often reaching a similar overall assessment to those reporting something different, the fact that a small number of people have not been happy with it, and that there has been some dispute over whether the firmware update makes an audible difference. You don't expect everyone to say the same thing about a device that has been proven to work. I think the variety I see in the reports I've read is actually a reason to believe that it could be doing something (note that I didn't say "is doing something"). On the other hand I find that some of the comments made by both Uptone and ASR ring warning bells for me. On a scale of 0 to 10 basically my assessment of the usefulness/reliability of what I've read so far from Uptone, from ASR, and from the owners who have commented on their experience is Uptone 5, ASR 3 (marked down for serious logic failure in drawing the conclusions he has drawn from the results of the only measurements we've seen), and owners 6.5 because while we can question their reports those reports do come across as honest attempts to describe what their listening experience has been rather than as attempts to justify their purchase. Over time I'm becoming more impressed by what I read from the owners than what I read from anyone else. Yes, owners can have a bias towards seeing their product in a positive light but look at the number of class action law suits that owners have brought against manufacturers and the willingness of owners to criticise products (how much criticism does Devialet get here from time to time?) and I think it iw quite obvious that owners are capable of reaching reliable assessments about the products they buy and that the kinds of bias that critics associate with ownership definitely are not capable of making people think that anything they own is perfect. Owners can actually be a much better source of info about a product than anyone else and I'm seeing signs of that here.