24-Dec-2019, 22:12
@mdconnelly
I don't think that the switches I've tried are necessarily "high quality" switches. They've all been quite basic unmanaged switches: a Netgear GS105, a D-Link (whatever their cheapest 5 port unmanaged switch was), and a Cisco SG110D-05) and the ethernet switch in the Orbi RB40 hub I use. The switches are all cheap switches. I don't think there's anything special about them and I would very much hesitate to say that they were in any way different to the cheap gigabit switches you tried which didn't work for you. I've ordered an EtherRegen but I didn't order it to fix this problem even though it will limit my connection to my 140 to 100 mbps, I ordered it in the hope that it would give me an improvement in sound quality.
I had been using a gigabit connection for a couple of months with RAAT before I struck the problem. I kept wondering what those with the problem were talking about because I wasn't getting it at all. I don't have any 24/192 content and I have one recording at 24/176.4 which had never had any problems. I decided to try having Roon upsample everything to 24/192 and I immediately got the problem. I turned upsampling off and it went away. I had to go out of my way to deliberately induce it in order to experience it. I tried swapping a few switches to see if the switch I had was involved and it didn't seem to be. I've also experimented with a direct ethernet connection between my Nucleus+ and my 140 and that made no difference with a gigabit speed connection. I still got problems with 24/192 and basically problem free at lower resolution with a gigabit connection. Even with 24/192 streaming, however, there were times when I had problem free performance for hours and times when it would occur every few minutes. There was no consistency in the frequency of the problem occurring.
Look, this issue got through testing from both Devialet and Roon during the Roon Ready certification stage and I don't think either company ignored it. I think it didn't show in their tests. It hasn't been mentioned in any of the reviews of Expert Pro amps that have appeared since certification so I think we can assume that none of the reviewers experienced it but they may not have been using a wired gigabit connection to the amps they tested. We've got some people here reporting it and some having a pretty problem free life with gigabit connections. Overall, from my reading here and also on the Roon forums, I'd guess that most Devialet users using a Roon Ready connection aren't seeing the problem for one reason or another. It's easy to think that a lot of people have the problem because there's a hell of a lot of posts involving it but take a look at the thread here about it and take a look at the number of people registered for this forum. Only a small proportion of forum members are posting in that thread and not everyone who has posted is reporting the problem. OK, a lot of forum members don't have Expert Pros and not all who do are using Roon, not all who use Roon are using a RAAT connection because many prefer the sound of AIR, and some are using wifi or 100 mbps wired connections, but my bet is that less than half of the Roon users using RAAT and a gigabit connection have reported the problem. If most were getting the problem then it would almost certainly have been discovered by Devialet and Roon during certification testing.
My guess is that there's more than one contributing factor. File resolution seems to be a factor but not everyone has the same experience with files of resolutions lower than 24/192. If file resolution was the only factor we'd all have the same experience at the same resolutions and that isn't the case. I don't think the problem is related to specific switches because I think we have people using the same switch, some with problems and some without. I can't think of any single distinct difference that can be found between those who are using a gigabit connection without problems and those who get problems with one. If there was a single common factor involved for everyone who had experienced the problem, identifying and fixing it would almost certainly have been done months ago.
In the meantime about the only thing that seems to guarantee a trouble free life under all circumstances with RAAT is avoiding a gigabit connection to the Devialet by either using a 100 mbps connection or wifi but at the same time using a gigabit connection doesn't guarantee that you will have problems. Gigabit connections can and do work well for some people and I don't think that it's the switch that people are using which determines whether or not the problem is going to occur.
I don't think that the switches I've tried are necessarily "high quality" switches. They've all been quite basic unmanaged switches: a Netgear GS105, a D-Link (whatever their cheapest 5 port unmanaged switch was), and a Cisco SG110D-05) and the ethernet switch in the Orbi RB40 hub I use. The switches are all cheap switches. I don't think there's anything special about them and I would very much hesitate to say that they were in any way different to the cheap gigabit switches you tried which didn't work for you. I've ordered an EtherRegen but I didn't order it to fix this problem even though it will limit my connection to my 140 to 100 mbps, I ordered it in the hope that it would give me an improvement in sound quality.
I had been using a gigabit connection for a couple of months with RAAT before I struck the problem. I kept wondering what those with the problem were talking about because I wasn't getting it at all. I don't have any 24/192 content and I have one recording at 24/176.4 which had never had any problems. I decided to try having Roon upsample everything to 24/192 and I immediately got the problem. I turned upsampling off and it went away. I had to go out of my way to deliberately induce it in order to experience it. I tried swapping a few switches to see if the switch I had was involved and it didn't seem to be. I've also experimented with a direct ethernet connection between my Nucleus+ and my 140 and that made no difference with a gigabit speed connection. I still got problems with 24/192 and basically problem free at lower resolution with a gigabit connection. Even with 24/192 streaming, however, there were times when I had problem free performance for hours and times when it would occur every few minutes. There was no consistency in the frequency of the problem occurring.
Look, this issue got through testing from both Devialet and Roon during the Roon Ready certification stage and I don't think either company ignored it. I think it didn't show in their tests. It hasn't been mentioned in any of the reviews of Expert Pro amps that have appeared since certification so I think we can assume that none of the reviewers experienced it but they may not have been using a wired gigabit connection to the amps they tested. We've got some people here reporting it and some having a pretty problem free life with gigabit connections. Overall, from my reading here and also on the Roon forums, I'd guess that most Devialet users using a Roon Ready connection aren't seeing the problem for one reason or another. It's easy to think that a lot of people have the problem because there's a hell of a lot of posts involving it but take a look at the thread here about it and take a look at the number of people registered for this forum. Only a small proportion of forum members are posting in that thread and not everyone who has posted is reporting the problem. OK, a lot of forum members don't have Expert Pros and not all who do are using Roon, not all who use Roon are using a RAAT connection because many prefer the sound of AIR, and some are using wifi or 100 mbps wired connections, but my bet is that less than half of the Roon users using RAAT and a gigabit connection have reported the problem. If most were getting the problem then it would almost certainly have been discovered by Devialet and Roon during certification testing.
My guess is that there's more than one contributing factor. File resolution seems to be a factor but not everyone has the same experience with files of resolutions lower than 24/192. If file resolution was the only factor we'd all have the same experience at the same resolutions and that isn't the case. I don't think the problem is related to specific switches because I think we have people using the same switch, some with problems and some without. I can't think of any single distinct difference that can be found between those who are using a gigabit connection without problems and those who get problems with one. If there was a single common factor involved for everyone who had experienced the problem, identifying and fixing it would almost certainly have been done months ago.
In the meantime about the only thing that seems to guarantee a trouble free life under all circumstances with RAAT is avoiding a gigabit connection to the Devialet by either using a 100 mbps connection or wifi but at the same time using a gigabit connection doesn't guarantee that you will have problems. Gigabit connections can and do work well for some people and I don't think that it's the switch that people are using which determines whether or not the problem is going to occur.
Roon Nucleus+, Devilalet Expert 140 Pro CI, Focal Sopra 2, PS Audio P12, Keces P8 LPS, Uptone Audio EtherREGEN with optical fibre link to my router, Shunyata Alpha NR and Sigma NR power cables, Shunyata Sigma ethernet cables, Shunyata Alpha V2 speaker cables, Grand Prix Audio Monaco rack, RealTRAPS acoustic treatment.
Brisbane, Qld, Australia
